Ok, well your 3 points are 4 (giggles) good reasons so I see what you are saying about him now.

I'm pro Obama all the way, and I think people need to be a little more realistic in terms of him 'stabilizing' the economy. He's the President - he can only do so much. Some things are just out of his hands. I think his welfare ideas are a great start; but it's super anal of some people to refuse to pay more taxes, just because they don't get sick themselves and because they don't want to help out some of their fellow citizens that are less fortunate. Paying that bit more in taxes really isn't that bad. In my country the general income tax (for EVERYONE) is between 40-70%. Now THAT'S f'ed up.
Obama is not a God or a superior spirit of some sort - he's human. He's TRYING and he's doing a good job! It took the United States of American 43 presidents before Obama to even get a black president. It'll take a bit more than 2 years to fix a rotten economy. Trust me.

But what is "get back old America" mean?

Tea Party followers are often asked this, and you'll never hear the same answer twice and never with specifics.

Tea Bagger is a derogatory term used to describe members of the Tea Party movement. Their name is based on the revolution which happened during the Boston Tea Party in 1773.

The Tea Party movement is not a political party. They are an extremely conservative part of the Republican Party.

Ahhhhhhh,fair enough. Like I said,far too much tea.

Taxes have not gone up. The administration is debating now whether or not to keep the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. The tax cuts were put in place with hopes more money would be spread about the country. As a result we went into the worst recession in a century.

Kuran, you seem like a nice person, but I think you are getting very poor information. Misinformation is part of the strategy of the right. Pres. Obama IS the American dream.

Do you REALLY think if it were illegal for Obama to be president he would be sitting in the White House?

You are not getting it. 3% a dollar AFTER 200k. So if you made $200,001 it would be $0.03.

First,how is Obama the american dream?

Second,the unfortunate truth is,just because it's illegial,dosen't mean it dosen't happen. To this day,approaching two years since he took office,the obama administration has failed to provide even a birth certificate,let alone proof that he is even a citizen of the united states. The supposed transparency policy that he ran with in his campaign is nowhere to be seen.

You are simply wrong, Kuran.

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

The fact that a mixed race child from a broken home could grow up and become the president of the United States is the definition of the American Dream.

Where are you seeing a fascist symbol used in the US government?

He may be wrong but he's damned cute and really hot :D

And those facius axes are carved left and right of the speaker's podium in one of the houses of your congress. they were those axes I described above and carried by the Romans and adopted by Hitler and are the root of the word fascist.

You raise an interesting point that I had never heard before, and a little research has enlightened me on the issue.

Just as the Nazis adopted the swastika as their own, although it is seen all over the world used in different ways, this symbol was adopted not by Hitler, but by the Italian fascists in WWII.

The same symbol does appear in Washington DC, but has been used long before it was used by Italian fascists. It "traditionally symbolizes summary power and jurisdiction, and/or 'strength through unity'".

The fasces appear on the Lincoln Memorial, but it should be kept in mind that the Lincoln Memorial was dedicated 15+ years before WWII started and the symbol was adopted by fascists.

i would say old america that was in 50's. blacks with no rights, gays will be an unknown word, taxing people as they please and were cooperation have far less power.
but still. biggest thing about "Obama is the dream" is that apparently great deal of americans don't want a black president. i have some data to back this up. when election came in 2008 only demographic voting for Obama more than against was youth.18-25 was underlying age? that day he got 30 million kids to vote for him and won because of them. so he isn't appealing to people who are not of new generation that has less stereotypes and ignorance.

and I just love how you MMM just shine light in every topic :cool: i went with what said kuranUSA after our debate since he lives there and seemed to know politics and yet he was more misinformed than me.

P.S we also have a swastika tilted in an angle a little. it represents Fire cross or "Laimas" (goddess) cross.

I agree that the racial issue is not often stated overtly, but is a part of what at least some of the tea party movement is motivated by, and there are those that even admit it overtly.

In November 2008 when Barrack Obama was elected it was on a promise of hope and change. It didn't take more than a few weeks after he entered office for the tea party rage to declare "Let's take America back!". Back from what? Back from who? I don't think it is hard to figure out.

And regarding taxes, post-WWII the highest tax rate in the US was 91%. The thinking was, if you make enough to live comfortably, then you can afford to give back to the country. In fact FDR wanted to make a tax rate of 100% over an income of $25,000. In the 1960s the top tax rate in America dropped to 77%. Reagan dropped it to 50% in the 80s. In the early 90s Bush dropped it to 31%. Now that Pres. Obama is thinking of reversing that temporary cut that Bush made over 8 years ago he is called a socialist and a lot of worse things. We didn't have multi-billionaires in America a couple decades ago. How much money does an individual need to live comfortably, and when 1% of an individual's income is enough to keep 1000 families in their homes, heated and with food for a year, and doesn't affect the livelihood of that individual, then I think their taxes should go up.

People are screaming that Pres. Obama wants to move things over 35% (for those making over a quarter million dollars a year) when only half a century ago the tax rate was close to three times that. Americans are not known for long memories.

and when it comes to those taxes even as small as they are planned to be people don't want them thou the majority would benefit.
so i don't know who is to blame. people for being stuck up and not wanting to sacrifice anything and believing they can gain only more in america, not lose anything or Obama for not dragging them by their hair to things that would benefit majority.

i think its the biggest Obamas fault. he wants to be friends with everyone. he doesn't have balls like Bush had who still stays to his opinion and says that war in middle east was the right thing. well he should flip middle finger and say i don't leave anyone behind and medic care is going to stay - he should fight for it.
and why you don't see people who are against medic care burning their medi-cards (dunno how to call them) ? because they need it.

was it okay to have this discussion about the American Election if we now have to restrict ourselves to all things Japanese or Asian?

Dogsbody, what are you talking about?

This is the rule you are talking about:

4.5 General Discussion is for threads that don't fit into any of the other categories. HOWEVER that does not mean that any topic is appropriate for General Discussion. Along with following the above rules, General Discussion threads should be
1) Relevant and inclusive to a majority of JF users
and/or
2) Timely and current (i.e. related to upcoming holidays, news or events).
and/or
3) Japan/Asia related

The election earlier this month is timely and current, therefore it is fine.

From what I read Bush was coerced in to sending troops by cheney and what ever the secretary of defenses name is.

Usually "coerced" means that the person changed their mind; not the case with GW Bush. The man voiced his support for such an action long before his candidacy for the Presidency. I don't recall the specifics, but I think it was while Clinton was campaigning for the office the first time.

As for evanny's comment I agree this is where Obama is ineffective. But there is a big difference between courage opf conviction and self righteous stubborness. The latter tends to accompany an excessive ego and minimal intelligence, as it does in the former President (and spawn of this state :mad: ).

But they should only "help" when they have support of the majority of the population.

This is a brief insight into what I'm talking about. How paying attention to the small things shines light on things so much larger. Forget Iraq and Afghanistan, N. Korea and Iran, they are just tips of the iceburgers:

Extraditing Bout and the Price of Silence | Robert Amsterdam Thailand

Please read it, MMM.

How do you determine the support of the majority of the population? By elections. I elect leaders who will then do my will.

If we want to vote on everything, there is no point in having elected representation. Of course, nothing will get done, but at least we will know what the majority wants without a doubt, even if it is massively expensive and devastatingly time consuming.

I am not sure what you want me to be getting from this article about Viktor Bout. I read some other articles for some perspective. Sounds like an interesting case (and I did see Lord of War).

I was not talking about Bout. I was talking about US fascism - how dictator governments are using the image of US friendship to legitimize their regimes because they lack democratic legitimacy, and the US is a willing supporter of this provided they get their pieces of the cake (in this case, Bout). I'm sad you missed the point entirely.

Thai people didn't vote on any US governments and didn't even get to vote on their own government, yet here is the US helping the unelected regime legitimize itself against the will of the majority of the Thai people, also damaging the relationship of Thailand with Russia in the process.

Many countries have similar problems. I only know about Thailand because I live here. I'm sure I'd have the same kind of story if I lived in some other country in this region.

Like I said, US fascism. They'll support the destruction of democracy and human rights so long as they get what they want - people to grovel before their superiority. Not a word of criticism for Abhisit, the unelected Thai PM, will come from the US now. Happy smiley faces, handshakes and massacres.

Going back to my original point, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, it's just America. Bush and Obama are the same. Democrat, Republican - only important for Americans who benefit from minor policies. The rest of the world just deals with a tyrannical America.