Sickening Japanese porn - Pretty much SFW
 

Was just reading on this and wanted some opinions from others, especially other people living in Japan. It seems pretty messed up to me.

The Horrific Japanese Porn Industry

Pretty much worksafe - there are a couple of pics but both are only shelves in a store

Can't disagree with any of the article. I especially find the kiddie porn to be absolutely disgusting. The company I work for was interviewed by Japan Playboy a few years back (all the interest in why so many foreigners were moving here) and they sent us a copy of the issue with the article. Having a look through at the back of the magazine there was an 'Up and coming' section. Here they had girls as young as 13 posing provocatively in swim wear and underwear. Now Playboy is pretty mainstream soft porn. I shudder to think what some of the magazines out there are like.

From things I've read there is a real issue in this country in regards to rape victims seeking any sort of justice. Not disimilar to what is was like in the west many years back where the women ended feeling more like she was on trial rather than the rapist. I read an article by a Japanese lawyer recently that said it's also an issue because of the tendency of prosecutors here not to go to court with a case that they aren't confident of winning (It can be a career killer for a prosecutor to lose a case). And most rape cases are not a slam dunk unless they can get a confession out of the accused so most cases just don't make it to court.

I say it up to the person, and what does it for them. As long as it is legal, of course, but other than that, if its what you like, go for it, no matter how disgusting or perverted. I have been told by friends that I'm really open-minded and unshockable, so.........

I also bought myself a 'Warning - Rated 'H'' T-shirt. lol. Make what you will of that. :rolleyes:

I'm with you on that Jambo except when it comes to kids. Kids have no place in anything to do with the porn industry as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. As with everything, there is limits

Child Sexual Abuse
Your country 59.4 per 100,000 people
japan 6.8 per 100,000 people

Your friend
AGNES CHAN OFFICIAL SITE

I don't know if that's a valid statistic or defense. As mentioned in the article there are a lot of restrictions on what rape is, for example, and a lot of reasons why the figures stay low other than "man ain't rapin'"

You can buy rape fantasy videos in the US, too. That is not exclusive to Japan.

And I have seen those underage model videos sold at convenience stores, too. I am not sure what they are marketed as, and I am curious what their parents are told by the "talent scout" that approaches them. Do they think the little girls is going to be a pop star?

I don't know what the parents are thinking either MMM. In the US or Australia if you circulated pictures of kids like that you'd be up on charges in no time. Here it's acceptable and I just don't get it. Ok they're not naked or involved in any sexual acts but having pictures of pre-pubescent kids posed provocatively in underwear and swim wear is not cool under any circumstances in my opinion. I really don't get why they accept it here.

I don't know about Australia, but in the US there us a subculture of children's beauty pageants. I think most people see it as candy for pedophiles, but some people are really into it.

Not quite in the same category as what you can readily get here. I agree those beauty paegents there are ridiculous though.

GoNative,
Sorry I lost track of the thread in which I made a rather critical post. It was more toward WingsToDiscovery, but I saw your reply and when I did, I was a bit too drunk... I was going to reply to you in there when I was somewhat sober, but before I could find that thread, I saw this one so I'll post here.

First of all, as I said before, I don't think you are a hater. I think you love, or at least like, Japan, which is very cool. But look at this.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Rape case ruling shocks Australia

And think about the fact that Australia has 70 times more rape cases per capita.
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf
you can say Japanese police cover it up and things like that but still, 70 times ??? Isn't THAT absolutely disgusting? I mean we are talking real rape victims here.

It's totally normal to be disgusted by some Japanese magazines, I am sometimes too. But you AUTOMATICALLY assumed Japan is retarded. Japanese people have very different ideas on the freedom of speech, what is liberal and what is a more advanced country. Many people actually think your culture is retarded and the numbers by the United Nations support that. It's easy to get carried away and be judgmental when we come across things like this about a foreign country. Me included. So let's get the facts down. Does Japan have more rape cases than western countries? Hell no. I repeat. 70 times more cases per capita in Australia. Does Japan have more child molestation cases? Most likely not. Then why, I really mean WHY?, did you think Japan was similar to how western countries had been "years back"?

Everybody has prejudice. I have it too. It is the function of our brains. If you keep putting your hand into a fire just because you are so liberal and think just this time it may not burn, you'll die soon. But I think it is important to at least acknowledge we all are innately prejudiced.

That's not sexy, MMM. Trust me, I have an eye for these things. West is different than Japan. West might be genuine innocent, Japan is not.

What doe this even mean? "Your country"? Does that refer to every other country put togethr which you're just making a burger out of?

Ayumi Hamasaki started out doin soft porn is a little'n. You'd be surprised, MMM, some of the kiddie porno photographers do have decent connections.

No truer words were ever spoken. Hehehe...

I'm sorry, but I have no idea whatsoever what you are intending to say Tenchu. What is your point?

Oh, you have "an eye for these things". I definitely don't have "an eye for these things" and it's beyond my imagination what you are seeing, so what do I know.

Just ignore him.

His point is that Western society is "morally superior" (whatever that entails in his mind) to Japanese society.

I would say that is what GoNative is implying too.

Oh, snap, THAT again :p

We men are bad. We think we are the best. hehe. It's OK he thinks he's superior. It's how he takes the counter criticism where his real manliness is proved, methinks.

Cranks what happens in other countries makes little difference to how I feel about children being used as objects for pornography. Specifically having magazines and movies of underage children in provacative poses is wrong as far as I'm concerned whatever country it's found in. I'm sure you might be able to find worse examples from other countries but that doesn't make it right.
I did not automatically assume Japan is retarded. I live here and see something like children being depitcted provacatively for the purposes of pornography and I think it's bad. If I saw something similar in any other country I was in I would think it's bad. It's nothing to do with specifically making it out that Japan is the only place it happens, I just happen to live here.

In terms of rape I believe the Japanese courts and police are barely at the same level of where most western countries were at in the 70's. We all know that in years gone by reporting of rape in the west was minimal because women were generally treated abysmally through the whole process of pressing charges and going to court and often felt they themselves were on trial rather than the accused. They were made to relive the entire experience in front of the accussed and every decision they made was brought into question as though they played a part in bringing it upon themselves. I believe Japan is in a similar position currently and a large portion of rapes go unreported for this reason.

I'm not the only person around who believes there needs to be a massive overhaul of the Japanese legal system. There is a large movement from Japanese lawyers and many other rights groups here in Japan and there has been considerable pressure from institutions like the UN to overhaul it's system. It's not just the laws themselves that need to be overhauled but it's the way the courts work. The incredible reliance on confessions is a real worry when the police can hold people without charge for long periods and no legal reprasentative is allowed to be present during questioning and no recording of the interviews are kept. And it's often at the expense of building cases on physical and forensic evidence. Without the confession they often have little to go on and the case never gets to court.

This article gives one rape victims perspective and a look at the issues for women who are raped in Japan. It also shows that according to the Justice Ministry only 11% of sexual crimes are reported. Rights groups believe it's even worse than that.

Victims finally learning to speak out against Japan’s outdated rape laws

Sure in places like Australia rapes still occurs but much has been done to assist the victims to encourage them to seek justice. In Japan that has really yet to happen. Again this is not about Japan bashing, it's just there are many aspects about the legal system here that are frankly archaic and concerning. It's not just concerning from a foreigners point of view, many Japanese are also very concerned and I'm not expressing any attitude here that isn't also expressed by many Japanese.

Finally I don't live in Australia anymore so what happens there is not overly my concern. And what happens in Australia doesn't make any difference to the issues present in Japan. If it's worse in other parts of the world what does that mean to me? I live Japan so what happens here is far more concerning to me especially for things like rape since I'm raising a daughter here.

I'm implying that using children for the purposes of pornography is wrong. I don't care what country you are talking about or what culture differences there may be. I believe in universal rghts for children not to be used in pornography. I don't believe that's purely a western concept.

Belive it or not,there's a psychological reason for that. It lies in Australia's history.

For over a hundred years,Australia was used as a large prison colony for English criminals. There was a period during which if you committed any crime at all,from stealing a loaf of bread to rape to murder,you were shipped off to Australia.

Before I continue I will point out that I have known several Australians over the years,and found most of them to be very nice people.

But.

The fact of the matter is that Australia's populace was formed mainly on Criminals. Killer John Doe might have met thief Jane Doe once off the boats,and had little Jhonny Doe jr. Jhonny was brought up based on the morals of mom and dad,which would be somewhat looser than the average,for example. So,in Australia,crime is not seen as such a bad thing. Even if your average australian person dosen't commit crimes,and is a law abiding citizen,there is a part of their mind that still carries that ancestral memory of,kill rape pillage plunder.

Note,as I've said,this was nothing against the australians,merely my observations on history.

[/opinion]

^^ that is hilarious! Ancestral memory?? I haven't laughed so much in a while...thanks for that!

Why not? How does a bird know to sly south for the winter? How do we instinctivley know what to do with fire? Ancestral memory.

Not the thread to discuss it. Start a new one if you really want to.

I'm really sleepy so I don't think I can come up with a very good post. I'll come back tomorrow but just a quick one.

Are you saying that 70 times more rape cases shown by The United Nations is all just coverup and it has NOTHING relevant? 10 percent of 70 times is still 7 times. And this isn't even my point. It's the fact that you automatically said Japan was like western counties "years ago" before checking all the facts. You could get the data by the UN in 10 seconds if you googled it. I KNOW you didn't know much about the crime rate in Japan and you just made a, prejudiced, assumption.

My English brain totally understands what you are trying to condemn. But my Japanese brain is saying it doesn't have much ground.

Yeah, using children for pornography is horrifying. But more brutal, direct, child abuse is abundant in the west than in Japan. I don't have any problem if you are culturally Japanese and condem it from a JAPANESE POINT OF VIEW. But you said that Japan was like western counties "years ago" and that has no logical ground. You didn't even know that Australia has 70 times the rape rate. Did you? Why all of the sudden Japanese pornography concerns you? Or will you say 70 times is completely bogus, and Australia actually has lower rape rate than Japan despite the number?

What is your point though cranks?? Rapes occur in Australia so as an Australian I shouldn't make any comment on how rape is handled and viewed in Japan? I just don't get this kind of argument. I don't live in Australia, I live here so I'm concerned about what happens here. What has Australia got to do with it?
If I was in Australia I would condemn any issues that I felt were unfair in the treatment of rape victims there. I don't live there, I live here.

It's the system that leads to the following that concerns me and I would think would be of concern to anyone regardless of nationality.

There is something wrong with the system when so few rape victims report the crime.

I agree, it is different. However it is still turning children into mini-adults, which has an implicit degree of sexualization. Don't get me wrong, I think both are messed up.

And cranks I probably know more about crime rates in Japan than you do. Not only do I actually live here but the low crime rates, especially in places like rural Hokkaido where I live, are one of the reasons I love living here. That doesn't mean there are no issues with how things like rape and child pornography are dealt with here.

I agree, and think we need to look at cultural aspects as well. Are Australian women more likely to report rapes than Japanese women? Is the definition of rape the same in both countries?

Ultimately any rape and any child exploitation should make us up in arms. It doesn't matter where there is more or less, it's all bad.

I dont know
 

The Japanese porn industry alone contributes so much to their economy. They rake in three times as much as Americas. As objectionable as some genres of porn may be, without it, Japan would not have progressed the way they have economically speaking. And all of the rape sold there as far as i have "researched" *cough* is staged and at least they aren't openly marketing full on nude 13 year old girls. So what if a few million a year bust a node over some sadistic fantasies involving bondage and molestation. At least they aren't repressing it. I mean what would the fat guy in his sweats do without it? "you know I think I might bound gag then rape my next door neighbors daughter. hm, sounds swell." :ywave:

Well, you clearly said that Japan is behind. If you TRUELY thought Australia doesn't matter, you wouldn't have even mentioned it. Have I EVER hinted Japan is more advanced except for the times I purposely did it to show how arrogant it looked?

You DID compare Japan to Australia. Then it SHOULD be compared to Australia. I'm not saying I hate you or anything. It's nice to talk to guys like you and that's why I hang out here. I just want to say if you want to dismiss 70 times the rape rate, you will need a very good explanation for it. 5 % of 70 times is still more than 3 times. And that's assuming Australian rape cases are reported 100% which I don't think sounds very convincing. Is it?

Then I would agree with you.

However I don't know what the comparison with Australia or the US was for.

I mean unless child pornography is legal in Japan and I'm unaware of it.

It is legal to have children pose provacatively in underwear and swim wear and there are whole magazines and films devoted to this genre. It is why this thread started. Kids are used here in the production of soft porn. It is a bit of a loophole in the law that the lumbering legal system here has yet to close. This is where the comparison with Australia and the US came in.

I see.

So you would prohibit that? I mean it's not my thing but I'm pretty sure that such laws exist to protect children rather than stop people thinking bad thoughts.

If they're clothed and not being exploited in any other way then no problem.

I think MMM was spot on with his comparison to child beauty pageants.

True. GoNative.

But ACTUAL child rape cases are probably a lot more common in the west. Do you have data that overthrows the UN's data?

Again. Japanese have very different idea on what is liberal. The west often see Muslims totalitarian. Some Muslim countries see the west morally corrupt.

I think what matters it the actual number of victims.

And I understand your grief about Japanese police. I don't like their secrecy attitude and that NEEDS to be changed. But at the same time, most of them are nicer and less corrupt compared to the western counterparts.

Really you have no problem with magazines devoted to pre-pubescent children being posed provacatively in underwear? I have been unfortunate enough to see some of this genre and they are posed with legs spread and bent over and in other sexually provacative poses. You have no problem with children being used for this? I find that astounding.
The laws protecting children in this country have come under a lot of internal and external criticism.

My point would be that isn't illegal in the US, either. It just isn't as openly available.

I haven't been exposed to any of it. In fact I would prohibit it if it were up to me.

Like I said though... if they're clothed and not being exploited in any other way then I don't see a legal problem.

But coming back to the comparison with the West... I think that there is a problem that there is a market for this sort of stuff... but again.. I think it's the same with the child beauty pageants in the US or Australia.

I agree the problem may be there is a market for it, but exploitation is exploitation. What happens when that 10 year old girl turns 17 or 18 and realizes that not only she was exploited, but now she is a permanent part of the Internet Lotita-complex library? It may not be criminal in a strictly legal sense, but it is hard to argue that it isn't wrong and vomit-inducing.

Ah... you haven't read my edits.

I'm just a bit puzzled about the comparison that's all. I don't understand why your comparison with underage beauty pageants was dismissed by GoNative.

cranks this is not about what happens in other countries. Why do you keep carrying on with this form of debate? The idea that it's bad elsewhere doesn't diminish in anyway that there are problems here too. I just don't get what you're trying to say. I'm sure there are plenty of Australian or American forums where you can go to debate issues in those countries.
I don't care how liberal the Japanese think they are, using children for pornography is wrong as far as I'm concerned. Kids are not making the choices themselves. They are being made to do it by adults for profit. How can you argue this is ok?

Laws are just laws. What do they matter to the children who are actually raped right this moment? Would they say "Oh there is a law protecting us from being raped so too bad I'm ACTUALLY being raped"?

There are a lot of short comings in ANY society. Even the first world ones. It's not like I want to see 12 year olds in bikinis on a magazine. But what are you gonna do? Have them put in burqas?

See what I mean? You think Japanese people are retarded because they put pictures of kids in Bikini on magazines. Some people think the westerners are retarded because they show women who are not in Burqa.

Again, I say what matters is the number of VICTIMS.

He can answer that on his own, but I am going to guess that it has to do with presentation. These DVDs are readily available in Japan. I have seen them in convenience stores. They aren't marketed as pornography, and strictly speaking they are not pornography. However, it isn't clear who they are marketed for besides pedophiles.

In the US many convenience stores (especially in bad neighborhoods) carry tiny roses in glass tubes for a dollar. No one in their right might would buy this for what it is, but they sell because they are easily used as crack/meth pipes. If it sells, they will come.