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Quote:

Originally Posted by JojoBizarre (Post 838457)

fighting amonsgt men is IMO the stupidest thing.

It's only stupid until they're the ones who are trying to kill you. Then it's either fight back or die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JojoBizarre (Post 838457)

I wouldn't even fight for my country, I would fight for humanity, but not for a country, fighting amonsgt men is IMO the stupidest thing.

If you were a consciencious objector if your country was at war you would probably go to PRISON. Many Canadians came over here to join with Americans and Brits among others to fight against Hitler. Many lost their lives. We are very grateful to them all.

If another country wants to over-run and overtake your country-- then you need to protect your country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamboP26 (Post 838429)

I know that loads of people in Japan get drunk, but the difference being, that its after a hard days work in the evening, and not in the mid afternoon. Not all old people annoy me, and I'm sure there some very nice older folk out there. But some just annoy me so much, just by doing so little. Like on Tuesday, the bus stopped, the doors opened and they just stood there. When I nipped quickly in to get on, I heard them muttering about manner and the like. They had plenty of chance to move for the bus but did nothing. I guess it is the area I'm in. Perhaps one reason why I'm looking forward to University, and getting on buses with people that are not half-stoned.

Hahahahahaha. Really? Hmmmm. It's Ayane from the video game series 'Dead or Alive', and she just happens to be my favourite character. lol. Jambo is my nickname, as my name's James :D I guess all the pink doesn't help the situation, but I don't really stereotype colours....

Oh dear what a hard time you seem to have. such a shame James.

maybe older people are not as agile as YOU-- I certainly am not.

we were brought up to give up our seats to elderly people or mothers with young babies etc or the disabled.

None of us would have sat in a seat on a bus if there was someone who needed it.

its all about having good manners and not barging past older or slower people. One day when you are old you might remember your present rather selfish attitude.

are you saying everyone is drunk? that is not so in my area unless one goes to clubs or bars at night-- which I never do.

Why you think Japan is so much better than your home-- you might be in for a shock-- japanese people are human also.

we don't have any drunks round our area except when youngsters have been to town and got sloshed then come home and knock garden walls down or fences etc and generally vandalise innocent peoples homes. Its not the older people that are doing that.

I really wish that the generations could get to know each other better.

and be more tolerant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoNative (Post 838455)

Where do people get this ridiculous idea that Japan does not have a fully capable defence force? Only 6 other countries in the world spend more on their military than Japan does. Their offensive capabilities are curtailed by their constitution and as far as I can tell the majority of Japanese people still support this. There's no problem with their defensive capabilities though.

I know right.

You would expect that people on this forum knew more about the country that they proclaim to want to fight and die for :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogsbody70 (Post 838462)

It sounds like you hold contempt for consciencious objectors.

If the draft was introduced in my country, then depending on the war I may be a consciencious objector.

They were probably sent to prison in your day... but that is morally wrong to send a person who doesn't want to go into war.

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Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 838552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogsbody70 (Post 838462)

Before too many accusations are thrown around about the World War 2 generation's attitude toward conscientious objectors, it might be good to try to get some actual facts. Although this passage from the English Wikipedia's article about conscientious objectors isn't well-cited, it does appear to provide some enlightening information about Britain's handling of conscientious objectors during the Second World War:

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In World War II, following the National Service (Armed Forces) Act of 1939, there were nearly 60,000 registered Conscientious Objectors. Testing by Conscientious Objection Tribunals resumed, this time chaired by a judge, but was much less harsh; if you were not a member of the Quakers or some similar pacifist church, it was generally enough to say that you objected to "warfare as a means of settling international disputes," a phrase from the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928. The tribunals could grant full exemption, exemption conditional on alternative service, exemption only from combatant duties, or dismiss the application. Of the 61,000 only 3,000 were given complete exemption and 18,000 were dismissed as false claimants. Of those directed to non-combatant military service almost 7000 were allocated to the Non-Combatant Corps, set up in mid-1940; its companies worked in clothing and food stores, in transport, or any military project not requiring the handling of "material of an aggressive nature". In November 1940 it was decided to allow troops in the NCC to volunteer for work in bomb disposal. In total over 350 volunteered. Other non-combatants worked in the Royal Army Medical Corps. Other acceptable occupations were farm work, mining, firefighting, ambulance service. About 5500 objectors were imprisoned, charged with offences relating to their unrecognised objection. A further 1000 were court-martialled by the armed forces and sent to military detention barracks or civil prisons. Nevertheless, the social stigma attached to 'conchies' (as they were called) was considerable: regardless of the genuineness of their motives, cowardice was often imputed.

In short, conscientious objectors who were believed to be genuine were treated reasonably by the government; only those whose objection was believed to be fraudulent were imprisoned.

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Originally Posted by ColinHowell (Post 838555)

In short, conscientious objectors who were believed to be genuine were treated reasonably by the government; only those whose objection was believed to be fraudulent were imprisoned.

How can an objection be fraudulent?

If someone doesn't want to go then they don't want to go. Whatever the reason.

It's stupid how they gave special exemption for some churches too.

If you belong to some bogus organization that claims to speak God's word you're exempt.

If you personally reason that you don't want to go to war because of the odds of survival then you aren't.

For me both are legit reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogsbody70 (Post 838462)

That's in the past, dogsbody. I'm with JojoBizarre and Ronin on this. "Fighting for humanity" means fighting for the best possible cause for the best possible consequence for the most number of people. In other words - utilitarianism. It's the 21st century, surely there are more peace advocators than there are harbingers of war. Although there are many existing aggressive and hostile gestures throughout the world, at least the idea of peaceful resolutions over aggression is prioritized, as compared to the preceding World Wars.

As a conscientious objector, I would protect my country, but not by means of dishing out the heavy artillery; I would obviously protect my country, but not by the logic of being a citizen in my country, but by being a human with morals. That's why I can say the same about Japan and other nations.

Man likes to fight, allways will. It's burned into our gentic code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogsbody70 (Post 838463)

Oh dear what a hard time you seem to have. such a shame James.

maybe older people are not as agile as YOU-- I certainly am not.

we were brought up to give up our seats to elderly people or mothers with young babies etc or the disabled.

its all about having good manners and not barging past older or slower people. One day when you are old you might remember your present rather selfish attitude.

are you saying everyone is drunk? that is not so in my area unless one goes to clubs or bars at night-- which I never do.

Why you think Japan is so much better than your home-- you might be in for a shock-- japanese people are human also

I really wish that the generations could get to know each other better.

and be more tolerant.

They had plenty of chance & didn't move. I usually sit at the back & annoy people with my loud music (even though my earphones are in). Seems that way. There are a lots of alcoholics & jakeballs (junkies) going about this area. I just can't be done with it. I give the older generation respect & tend to find on occasion they show little or moderate respect to the younger generation i.e. students I'm sure Japan has very similar conditions in areas. Difference is, Japan hasn't disappointed me yet, so my respect for the country is still strong