Lolita Complex
 

Is a lolita complex socially acceptable if controlled by the individual?

In no way whatsoever.

But why is that if one can control it, it shouldn't matter

Someone who is sexually attracted to children will not be accepted under any circumstances by society.

Not true, someone could easily be forgiven for their faults by their community. Though it is rare stranger things have happened. Not only that but as I said controlled by the individual. They could restrict themselves to lolicon in which case they wouldn't be hurting anyone. Many have testified that it helped them control their urges. I purpose that they can be but its very rare.

For simplicity's sake, let's talk Western Society. Western Society does not accept or forgive people who are sexually attracted to children. Society has gotten more conservative, not less over the years.

Someone who has sex with children is not forgiven by society.
I didn't say they couldn't hide it, I just said they would not be accepted by society.

Who have testified to that? Can you give sources.

Name a situation where someone who is openly sexually attracted to children has been accepted by modern society.

In the US a Child molsester doesn't last long in federal prison. Even hardened criminals, who would sell thier own mother, hate them.

Too true. Their is a line that even the most hardened criminal will not cross.

As MMM says also, they would not be accepted by society. Simple as.

I also don't see how a community would forgive someone interested in children. As lolicon is linked with that social taboo many would also take a dim view.

How strange!

lolita=children...somone should mention that maybe...yes Ive seen the films even Leon.

point is in a forum like this its a style!


I may not understand it personally (I always think Chitty Chitty bang bang)

dosent mean you can blanket statment like that.....or alt post your own prefrences for consideration.

Ghap, there is the "Lolita style" which is quite acceptable in some circles, but even that is look at with some disapproval by older people who know the term "Lolita Syndrome/Complex". They are not the same thing, though both took the name "Lolita" from the same rather scandalous literary work.

The only community I can cite that would tolerate someone they knew to have a Lolita Complex is the Leather-S/M-Fetish community. And even they will tolerate it only as FANTASY, not reality. It is only role playing by adults and costuming - just like the Lolita fashion statements. Once that boundary between fantasy and reality (and informed consent) is crossed, even that community will not tolerate it.

No civilized society accepts sexual use of children.

I have to agree with other posters on this. I don't think it will ever be acceptable.

I know some things were once unacceptable and have became acceptable over time, but I really don't think this is one of them. It's hard to explain, because I understand the fact that as long as you aren't hurting anyone then technically a wrong hasn't been done, but at the same time it is abnormal and people will always fear the risk that one day the individual won't be able to control it.

Surely a sexual urge is a sexual urge? People don't deny themselves sexually because of a law, for example when homosexuality was outlawed people still did it, records prove that judging by how they were arrested for it. If someone has a lolita complex - a desire for underage girls, I believe? - then I personally wouldn't trust them to not act on that desire. I doubt any sane adult who cares about children would either.

That would be the rub right there. The fact that children aren't adults yet.

I have to admit when I first came to Japan this was one of my biggest misunderstandings.

I remember thinking "what the hell?! why are all these guys attracted to childishness and childlike features? where is the western sex-appeal I'm used to?! it's like having sex with a child! eww eeewwww!!!!"

and then I got over it

Yeah, unless you are in Japan. Majority of girls look and behave like kids. :D

I get the whole appeal to it, despite it not being my style.

But I think it's important for all westerners to understand that regardless of how much a japanese guy may desire for his girlfriend to look and behave like a 10 year old, he would never consider doing anything to a 10 year old girl.

Then again, my ex had a 42 year old (married) boyfriend just after turning 14. And that's not an isolated incident as far girls I've met are concerned, so it does seem to happen a tad more here, at least in my experience, statutory rape, that is.

Having sex with children is not acceptable behavior in Japan.

I totally agree.

I agree no person can accept the abuse of children in any form!

Tho I hope you will accept also thats I have heard the term (even outside s+m) who are also talking about adults only.

Yes, and those cases they are talking about role playing, fantasy and/or fetishes. That's a gray area that is open to interpretation on how moral it is.
It vents a psychological urge in such a way that it harms no one. And yet, it does foster a false image of acceptability in the real world.

But make no mistake, skewing pedophilia into outlets such as this that are more acceptable has proven not to alleviate the problem for the pedophile, or reduce the criminal activity associated with it to any significant degree. Studies in the prison systems with repeat offenders indicate that it is merely a delaying tactic until the urge can no longer be resisted.

it'snot what i meant...honestly...read between the lines.

Read between what lines? You said most women in Japan dress and behave like little girls. Besides the fact that isn't true at all, it still doesn't rule out the fact that people in Japan do not accept individuals that are sexually attracted to children.

MMM you sometimes bore me to death with your correctness.
I did not say anything about Japanese law approving or disapproving sex with children. And don't take "all" so seriously. You need vacation mate.

the between the lines means, that J chicks are childish.

Who said anything about the law? I am talking about Japanese society. What "all" are you talking about?

Ah you know the scary masses with hello kitty and plush toys around their phones in numbers that could scare the pants out of Chinese army, clothes on birds in their late 20s that fit teenagers going through the disaster of puberty, etc.

I must say though that last summer I have noticed a slight change in global fashion (in Tokyo), yet again like mindless a skull of fish they have all switched to shorts high heal boots and miniskirts now. Its the similar pattern to "oh no my neighbour's kid learns the violin so mine has to do it too asap".

All that clapping hands like baby seals on crack because a neighbour got a minipitbull made by Sony, or girls acting like they were weaker than dried petals of falling sakura in their late 80s. Nahmsaying?

Wasn't that Eisenhower who said that Japanese should be treated like they're 12 yo? Girls act that way because Japanese men require it, being pertified by a sight of independent women. I am talking about general pattern, not every single Japanese girl that lives. If it was so it would be an epidemy. :D

Masses? I am not sure where you see "masses" of them, but I am familiar with kawaii as a style that some young women are attracted to. Looking at women in their 20s I think it would be hard to say most, or even a majority, are still into Hello Kitty and kawaii style.

It sounds like you are the one in need of a vacation. I am sensing Japan burnout.

Most Japanese men I know find that high voice cutesy stuff pretty annoying. I guess it depends on the circles you run around in.

Its not circles that matter but the piont of view. I see them my way and you dont. Simple. Besides, if i was orbiting in the circles you think i am, i would really be in need of vacation.

Japan burnout? With what? I live far away from all that commercial rubbish. It doesnt agree with my digestive system.

　

Just because you have a point of view does not mean that point of view is valid or true. America's founding fathers' point of view was that black people were 3/5 human. That was their point of view.

I wouldn't dare guess what circles you run around with, but I don't see "most" of the women in Japan dressing as you describe or acting as you describe.

"scary masses," "mindless...fish," "baby seals on crack," "weaker than dried petals of falling sakura,"... This how you describe Japanese women.

But this raises a question with me. Just because we see Hello Kitty as something for children, if it becomes fashionable, does that mean women he follow that fashion are acting like children?

I remember a few years ago the "Playboy bunny" symbol was in fashion, and even teens and younger could be seen wearing clothes with the Playboy bunny on it. Does that mean they are sluts?

The marijuana symbol was stylish for a time, and I remember seeing even schoolage boys with pot shirts on. Does that mean they are potheads?

this argument is pretty funny in a ridiculous way haha

R says something that has a certain amount of truth and then blows it way out of proportion,
M retaliates with pointing out the grave disproportions of said statements

My point of view; Women in Japan tend to dress "fashionably" much longer into their lives than western women.
To a western mind it may well seem childish as it's normally just teens that dress that way back home, but now that I see pics of back home it's like relatively most women over the age of 30 give up entirely on being fashionable.

It might be that women in Japan try to get married as soon as they can, that the longer they wait..the less chance they have. Thus they stay with the current trends to try and stay "up to date". Least that is what I have read about.

I don't think that's it, it's just as likely for a married 30 year old to dress fashionably as a single one. Hell, even after they have children.

It's just the way it is, that Japanese woman may ask why many women stop dressing fashionably in western countries, and be just as boggled by it as you are.
Dressing fashionably, going to restaurants and cake shops, talking about your kids and husband's job etc with your small group of friends at a cafe, these traits define the typical woman in Japan, imo.

Not such a bad thing really is it? Fashion is only something for those that care about their appearance either because of manipulations of marketing to make us feel insecure unless we look a certain way or to fit into certain social groups or project an image about oursleves through our clothing. Once you're completely comfortable with who you are and don't get worried about how others perceive you things like fashion have little meaning in your life.

As you can see I don't think much of the whole idea of fashion. I dress to be comfortable, nothing more and nothing less. And thankfully my wife is the same. Much cheaper when you're not a slave to fashions! ;)

That's true and has some validity to it.
I don't pass judgment so quickly on those who dress fashionably as to assume why they do it.

But more importantly, I do believe that that the severely unfashionable western middle-aged women do in fact very much care about their appearance, regardless of why it is, media or simply comparing themselves to an image they have of their own past. If dressing fashionably allows them to alleviate some of that then that's fine by me.

What I mean is that if I see a 50 year old western woman dressing like a teenager I assume she's a media-whore who's been brainwashed and has massive insecurity issues.
But if I see a 50 year old Japanese woman dressing like her friends and also her daughter, I certainly don't assume anything about her confidence or motives, it's a cultural difference.

A few of my students are older housewives who do dress cute and fashionably, I assure you they have no lack of confidence nor are they media-whores, but they just like they way they look in those clothes. Honestly they do look better dressed that way than in sweats or loose blue jeans etc.

see, this what i don't get. fashionably does not mean tossing all top brands on. lack of taste (or sense of fashion) is one issue but i guess that comes from no family values (or weak ones). Also note that all that fashion drama disappears when they get pregnant and have a kid, after which they all dress up like a aged scare crow, speeding about in ther mama charinko's and long gloves not to catch any sunlight, because omg i have to stay death-like pale.

to blowing out of proportions. sure i do. I am an artist, it;s my job to magnify. otherwise it's boring and not attractive enough to challange it, right MMM :D besides i am European and my rather large book of complaints and bitching comes along with the passport lol.

Taste is subjective, and I think you're outnumbered by popular vote regarding the taste of these women.
Family values don't relate to the fashion one chooses, at least not here. The Goth/Punk cutesy 30 year old girl probably loves her family just the same as the prude. Hell she probably is prude too.

And I see heaps of hot moms and fashionable pregnant chicks, I have no idea where you are, the country-side perhaps?

I don't think many europeans would appreciate being associated with a large book of complaints and bitching lol

I know i am outnumbered, bad taste is prevailing.
What kind of Europeans are you hanging out with? Charisma men?

Child abuse is abhorent no doubt

but if consenting adults are involved Thats there business not anyone else's.

Hell lolita, schoolgirl, police, army, nurse, cosplay and anything else you can think off.

Heres one argument thrown back

"Just because you have a point of view does not mean that point of view is valid or true".

In this case the point of view is derived from my personal taste and reaction to the junk around. Since "de gustibus non est disputandum" as the Romas used to say and fact that we all base our opposing point of views on subjective grounds I reckon that the whole discussion is rather academic.

I don't really give a monkey's toss if anyone agrees or not. This is a forum for sharing opinions about Japan. My opinion regarding chicks and their fashion is what it is and when I change it I will send you a 書留. :ywave: Aite?

Well said!

at the end of the day its all about "taste".

To Me a lolita complex is liking young LOOKING girls I know at least 5 people that look twelve but are 18 with a photo I.d. to prove it.
They actually frequently call themselves Loli

As one of those ~50 year old western women referred to, there is a factor that may impact us more than our Japanese counterparts.
Western women, especially in the U.S., tend to grow in all proportions considerably more than Asian women between their teens and later years. And western clothing manufacturers become worse and worse (almost daily) at catering to anyone over the age of about 16 these days. If you look at what is sold in even the more trendy department stores for women of my age, we have little or no choice but to wear downdy, frumpy, ill-fitting things that are humiliating to anyone with a sense of fashion. Unless you are extremely rich and can afford a private tailor, you eventually tire of the fight and wear the best you can abide being seen in. And if you are also over a size 12, you might as well just forget looking attractive in 90% of what is in the stores. The buyers seem to think we should all wear cheap looking t-shirts, baggy slacks, sweat suits. Half of what is on the racks do not even meet my companies definition as Business Casual.

The other factor is that after a certain age, one's budget for high fashion clothing tends to be re-apportioned for more substantial things like home furnishings, cars, medical insurance/expenses, etc. Being the fashion plate to seem attractive to others is less important than other needs of a family and home.