Jambo, maybe I am wrong, but I didn't take this thread to be directed at you, so much as the regular flow of newbie otaku that flow through the forum on a regular basis who don't really think such a move out in detail, other than how to get the plane ticket and visa.

There is no harm in trying something, even as drastic as moving to a foreign country - as long as you have an exit strategy if things don't go as expected.

The few times when I made similar upheavals in my life, there were always factors that no matter how much I researched just weren't so clear on my radar till I was in the midst of it.

One of those that has only been briefly glossed over is feeling isolated. Its going to happen and a westerner is going to need to be emotionally prepared for it. A white, westerner is going to visually stand apart from the native Japanese around them most of the time. And one has to get used to being stared at because of it. If you do not speak Japanese well or cannot use chopsticks, you will survive, but you will stand out even more. Tending to very self sufficient and a bit of a loner, I underestimated similar circumstances with a 6 month assignment I took once. Even I felt the strain of never quite belonging, though my co-workers did their very best to make me feel comfortable. It will get better with time, but feeling at home in a new country will not happen quickly and if you don't accept that from the start its going have an negative impact.

And the Moral of the story is, it wasn't for you!

Texas is not a bad place either, I mean..

@TalnSG I know this thread isn't directed at me, but its just I (aswell as others) have been singled out for some 'attention'

You don't have to excuse yourself when you're getting attacked like this Jambo!

There is nothing in this Thread you should be sorry about!

My original intent of this thread is to tell kids to stop using "Japanese Culture" as an excuse when you can't find better reasons to tell people you want to go to Japan.

If you have your own valid reason and wish to share it, please feel free, but lets not attack each other.

But if you are here, because you are trying to find other people supporting a no good reason (IE, because you are interested in Anime and manga, and truly believe how it represent japan), then you have to live with people's criticism....

Nah, a picture of your mom's tits would be nice though. Mommy wouldn't have to nag you if you behaved yourself. Besides, I've gotta make sure you 'can't go out without ending up in a bar fight' after all.

Oh yeah, and "hashi o tsukaenai" （箸を使えない） means "Unable to use chopsticks". For wanting to live in Japan so much, it's awfully surprising you don't know the basics of the basics of Japanese. ;)

@ Godwine
Well said. You're exactly right. This is your thread and you can say what you want. If others didn't want to hear what you had to say then they shouldn't have posted in your thread.

I like this sentence! I don't use sarcasm, I mean it!

So in your point of view, using the reason "Japanese Culture" to be interested in Japan is not acceptable? Is that correct? And it's a blatant excuse in your eyes to go to Japan?

May I ask you, what is acceptable to you? And what do you personally include into the "Japanese Culture" synonymous?

No, the only Japanese words I know are Konichiwa, Arigato Goisamous, Hai and Sayonara and I still didn't had the chance to remember them correctly or how to write them. :D Every single one must have a grammar mistake lol

I don't even master the English language yet^^

But I do plan on learning at least the common phases before I go of course. Time just doesn't allow me to learn the language just yet I am sorry.

I can probably answer this, solely as I went back and read the opening post . . . I think he defines culture as history, ettiquette, social customs etc. and what isn't 'culture' is basically an image created solely by manga, anime, films. If you've only ever watched Naruto and Battle Royale then you have no idea of Japanese culture, (not aimed at you personally) and thus it wouldn't be a legit reason to go and would be a mere excuse. I doubt anyone would disagree to this, unless they themselves were naive and rather obssessed with this false 'culture'.

Thanks, and well explained. Yes, culture means anything outside of the fictional world fabricated by pop-media

Because, i really have heard people on this forum who really thought that they can train with some special top secret legendary martial artist who lives in a mountain.........I mean, really????

Jambo, my only advise to you since you're going in IT. JLPT and Kanji Kentei.

You'll have a real limit of engineer/it type jobs available to you if you cannot speak near fluent japanese. Get on it :)

Oh, if that was what you meant by it, then I fully agree with both of you.

But you should be more careful and not automatically point the finger at somebody who uses the words "Japanese Culture" as their reasons, because not everybody things about Manga and J-Pop when they reffer to these words.

I am pretty sure most do not!

Thanks for the advice, Kenmei. I believe at least Level 2 JLPT is sufficient? I've done a wee bit of homework :)

I'm not trying to give negative feedback, it's realist feedback. What if I said I was sure I would adore Iraq just from looking at street view Iraq?

Saying the U.K. sucks in all sorts of ways, while assuming the most of Japan is just going to set you up for a big fall when you get there, especially when trying to live.

It's not usually a good thing to admit you're a weeaboo or Otaku, but I guess admitting and acknowledging is better than denial.

Yes, because others here don't go to the extent of planning waking up to 'Kimigayo' in the morning while looking up at a huge Japanese flag for empowerment, then wearing every item of clothes with Japan written on it somewhere, while dreaming of helping anime girls, and watching Corrie just for the Chinese girl on it...

Yeah... I know... :/

When you place THAT much of your life on something to that extent... the real thing doesn't usually live up to expectations. The less you expect, the better it is.

I may have told you this before, but you really have to stand out to get into the IT field. I think I could be an example of how much one can have and still don't find a job in IT in Japan: over 10 years of in field experience, 6 of which are in the area of team management, conversational in Japanese, Cantonese, Mandarin and English, Master degree in ITM. I never got a single offer with that background, and its not my interview skills (i don't think so), I got 5 offer in the last 4 months locally, so I am sure its not my interview skills

that said, please work very very hard to make yourself stand out. Or do something innovative...

Well...there are tons of foreigners in Japan and I doubt that all of them stand out.

There are many Chinese who went over to Japan as students and were still able to get jobs in Japan. None of them stands out like you do, or very few anyways.

And the whole Japanese "culture" thing makes very little sense to me. What does that even mean? You're there so you can....see what Japanese people do? What they do isn't that different from what you do at your own country. Do you care about your own culture? You probably don't right...you probably could care less about the culture in your own country. Well...that's how most Japanese people think about Japanese culture. They could care less, they had no choice, they were just born Japanese. They live there, they work, they eat, they go home. That's it.

I'm Chinese, speak fluent Chinese and I really don't know much or care much about Chinese culture. I don't think Kanji is pretty at all...I think Chinese is one of the easiest, most stupidest languages out there....just telling you.

Well you just need to look at the kind of things they produce.

I'll give you an example. Weaboos. There has probably been a brief scene in one anime where a guy gets angry at one and Shinkenger Act 14 and that's it. To my knowledge,they have not gone any deeper into the issue. They aren't gonna get really angry about Japanese wannabes because life's too short. Just respect your fellow man,at the end of the day.

LOL at the comment about watching Corrie for the Chinese girl on it! It's an interesting storyline! It's a good example of a multicultural society! Yes,it's China to the UK rather than UK to Japan,but I might learn something from it,you never know.

@ Tokusatsufan
Is English not your first language? (I'm not being mean, I'm just curious because of the way you write.)

No,no,it's just that A] when you spend your whole life on the computer[who doesn't these days?] sometimes I just can't be arsed,I wouldn't be surprised if I'd made a mistake and B] I just don't think like most people. I'm weird. I'm not gonna make any secret of that. When I was 9 I was diagnosed with Aspergers,but I think it's safe to say I've learnt so much about the world I have just "got past it". I have just advanced. I never swore until recently either.

I'm half-Welsh and in Welsh you write backwards,maybe that's it!

Are you talking about folks that's already there? I war referring people who wish to go there now or in the near future, it's not easy to find a sponsor to get them that visa, so they have to work hard to enrich themselves, otherwise there is no reason why they would want to hire a foreigner at the added cost

And I don't know whe you got that from, maybe just the crowd you hang out with, but the Japanese I know are very proud of themselves. I was only saying that the interest in culture is becoming an excuse, I didn't say it has to be the reason. I wanted to be doing AI development, and it just so happen that at the time the Asimo and Partner project was taking off, so Japan make sense to me. Culture was only one example

I am Chinese myself, and I also have a lot of things against my own people and culture, but you sounded like you just simply hate it, that's your choice, but just because you hate your own culture, it doesn't mean at Japanese will feel the same.

Oh, and I don't think Chinese is an easy language at all..

lol ok why would I hate the Chinese I'm Chinese myself. I just could care less about all the hoopla they do every Chinese new year and say everything Chinese is a big deal. I really don't care about that stuff....doesn't mean I hate it. I just don't care much for it.

I doubt that most Chinese people think that Chinese characters or culture is beautiful or whatever. It's just what it is. Like most Americans wouldn't think like "wow, English is such a beautiful language...wow I'm blessed!" You know they don't think like that....and most Japanese people probably could care less about that stuff either.

In fact children everywhere prolly hate thier native "lanquage" class with a passion.

Hahahahaha. I see someone did research via my Facebook profile. BTW, I don't wake up to Kimigayo. I wake up to AKB48 :) I'm not expecting too much of Japan. What I've seen so far, I like. Yet there's plenty more to see. While it may sometimes appear obsession, that's just me. I have a very obsessive personality. My minds also perverted to f***, but that's besides the point. I have a plan I will follow. If it doesn't work and Japan doesn't cut it, fine. It works for so many gaijin that it should work for plenty more, right?

Thanks for your insight, Godwine. I felt it would be a tough task ahead so I'm just going to give it my all to reach my goal. Hopefully, with a spot or two of luck, I can achieve things

Fair enough, and I respect that, but you cannot generalize and say that everyone else is the same. And as I said before, i don't know where you got that idea from, but there are other people who is pretty proud of all aspect of their culture.

Not sure where the whole beautiful language thing came in, nobody said anything about it. You need to know it because that is the one thing that people will need to survive - communication. People don't felt that way because they took things for granted. The ability to read and write is a luxury in some third world country.

Yes, Japanese won't go around telling people how much they love their country or language, but try going telling a Japanese that their writing is ugly and their language sucks, see how they will react

Hahahaha! Good one.

Don't worry about the "Japanophiles" on here. They only stay for a few months and disappear when they grow out of it.

Or after enough criticism from others who has a life....

Nothing like a helping hand to speed up the process. ;)

Arg!! here where i live... there are a lot of people who claim that japan is the best culture in the world... and there is nothing wrong about that thinking... but... to say that only because the anime and manga??... OMG... that reaaaaally bothers me...
I'm studing Psychology and im dying to go to japan so i can study at the Osaka university because they teach a lot of things that my university doesnt have... also i want to observe whit my own eyes all the cultural presure that my japanese friends told me that the japanese comunity holds... thats because im doing a research about that and im really interested about the topic...
I love japan because when i was a little girl my nani was japanese and she told me a lot of things about her country(good and bad thing like eeeeevery culture that exists have)... she made me fall in love of her culture :D

I hate that for people that loves japan because of the anime, there are a lot of stereotypes that affect all the people that want to go to Japan for good reasons...

I hope that u guys dont hate me because of my opinion :P!!
SORRY FOR THE BAAAAAAD ENGLISH.... T-T

Sadly, most people are first exposed to Japan either by electronics/automobile or their pop-culture. The interest has to start somewhere, and there is nothing wrong if the interest stems from pop-culture. But what really intrigued me is how can people just decide that they love all aspect of the country after just limited pop exposure? I mean, if you think about sequences its more like: Anime/Manga > More Anime/Manga > I love japan and want to move there

I just think that the proper way to do it is: Anime/Manga > Visit Japan > Like it enough > Do more research on the country > Do love it, lets move there (Or Anime/Manga > Do more research > Visit > Move)

Or like yourself, other valid reason.

basically, don't just say "i want to move to japan" after watching several episode of naruto, and claim that "I am interested in their culture".

If you do a search on the "living in Japan" forum, you will find a LOT of idiots saying that "Japanese Culture" is the reason why they want to move there, while you can tell they know nothing about Japanese culture....

Edit: Look up "Funk Fujiyama" on youtube, its a song from the 80s by Kome Kome Club, that pretty much summarize what limited knowledge most foreigner has about Japan: Samurai, Geisha, Sushi, Mt Fuji, Harakiri

The song is a pun on foreigners, but I really don't think its far off

If this is your plan, I garentee you will fail. I've been here 1 year and 3 months, so you will not divert me from this awesome forum

i wonder if there's people in japan that want to move to america just because they saw die hard :rolleyes:

No... Iron Man... Iron Man.....

Well other sad thing is that they really don't think about the cultural differences that exist between oriental and occidental cultures... and to get used to a totally diferent country is really dificult!!! To live in other country its hard and sometimes sad if you are alone in a strange place!!
The Anime is not real and the people dont even talk or act like that -O-!!!

If u guys are gonna love Japan cos of the anime and manga its Ok!! but think twice about living there... or u guys can go whit a friend or something cos the "fairy tale" where u live is going down u,u!!


Ahahahahahhahahaha!!!!! XD OMG!!! my stomach hurts!!!

We've been using Anime as the example of an unreasonable basis for a decision (not that I disagree!), but I just thought of other some of the other equally unreasonable routes foreigners take to decide they should move to Japan.

I remember when samurai and ninja movies were the big rage in the U.S. and all the guys wanted to be in Japan so they could learn marital arts and sword play. And older ones to be catered to by geishas. Totally ignoring that the days of the samurai were long gone and even worse, completely misinterpreting what a geisha was.

Maybe I understand it because when I was about 14, I wanted to move to Japan. It was only to study and practice Shinto. And a little bit because people laughed when I insisted on wearing geta instead of flip-flops in the summer. To me that was "Japanese culture". I learned how much a culture really entails before I could do anything like spend my life savings on a less that well thought out plan.

But I think Godwin sees that today younger and younger people are able to make such leaps of faith without a net to catch them when they fall.

You brought up a good topic for discussion. I think there is nothing wrong with people going to japan to train in martial art, I mean, I am doing the same thing next year for just one week, though I am going for the purpose of training.

Though along the same line, training in hope of acquiring skills thats unheard of in the west is totally unreasonable and retarded.

And yes, you are right, how geisha are being perceived in the western world is wrong, but I think much of it might really be how the Geisha image was tarnished during the war, just as it was portrayed in Memoir of a Geisha, some girls choose to dress like one to seduce man, as such the "Geisha" that the western society were exposed to (At the time) were mainly in the business of sex trade. That said, i think people should also do more research themselves to really understand what a Geisha is before they make judgement.

On that note, people who go to Japan in hopes of getting hitched with sexy porn star like girls also disgust me

so what, then, would be the difference between that and those who want to go to japan to become successful mangaka or something of the like?

If they are only going to train, they usually only go for a few weeks at a time, and they don't go as a novice. They don't relocate after just watching matches, thinking they can copy the moves. If so, it might be even dumber than anything we have considered so far.

I see nothing wrong with someone who wants to train as a mangaka once they have submitted their work and been invited as an intern. We are discouraging those who just decide to pack up and go thinking they can do it just because they have been obsessed with manga and can draw decently.

very good point. but i am curious as to what the end goal would be in going over there to train in martial arts. is there a career to be had if you're good enough? is full relocation to japan the next step in their training? could the whole thing end up being a waste?
sorry for my ignorance on the subject, but i know very little about martial arts beyond the class i took while in elementary school :p

I would say there is no difference, and I think you are being pretty harsh.

It is one thing to train, and another to assume you will be a "successful mangaka" or a "karate champion".


Sure, there have been many foreigners that live full time (or near full time) as successful K-1 fighters and sumo wrestlers. In fact, you have a much better chance at finding permanent resident status this way than being a mangaka. The reason is, a mangaka doesn't have to live in Japan to do his or her work.

You guys have to realize that there are some people who finds everything Japan-related to be straight up boring....except for anime.

I have friends who love anime, but outside of that they really don't care much about Japan.

I mean if it's a native Japanese guy who loves anime and wants to be a mangaka.....now I'm sure NOBODY on this website would say anything.

But if it's a gaijin....then it's a problem.