what happens when puppies grow up?
 

Talking with my friend today I came to a rather horrific realisation.
Those puppy/kitten cafes in Tokyo....what happens when the animals grow up?
Seriously, anyone know?

Find the person whom the shop receives.
When nobody receives.........
Because it is unsold stuff of the pet shop, it can be said second base chance.

"Puppies grow up to be dogs that get old and die."

I think they take care of them. :) That's for my opinion, when they grow, maybe they train them too. :) I don't know to other pet shops.

With the dogs; Most of the time they are adopted out. Dogs in Japan are incredibly expensive, so offering a purebred dog at a low price, even if they are a bit past the tiny puppy stage, can usually find an owner. For those that don`t... They either move to different cafes or go on to places like this;
IPCわんわん動物園　ハッピーインフォメーション

Where tons of dogs accustomed to being messed with by countless people wander about getting attention.

For the cats - kitten cafes are not nearly as common as full grown cat cafes (at least in my observance) so I would assume they just move to a cat cafe.

what do you mean by expensive? in comparison with west?

my family always has had pure breed animals.
first we had Giant Schnauzer for 10 years, just awesome dog. smart and really powerful. we got lucky and got it like for just 100$ and it even had a mother with all kinds of decorations.
now we have Bernese Mountain bitch. very energetic. this one was 400$.
Persian cat was bought also for some 100$. when it passed away we got Saint Birman cat for 400$. he was huge, like 8kg, but passed away after 5 months from disease. then we got a (can't remember the name but looked a lot like the previous, only the name was different) for 300$.

ou. and i had a Chinchilla for 100$. the single most cute, fluffy and with greatest personality thing you will ever find :cool:

so. are the prices in Japan even higher?

I would be surprised to see a dog on sale for less than about $500.
Pure breeds here are usually around $1500. Obviously it does depend on the breed, and some are cheaper than others, but dogs are expensive. The smaller breeds are the highest - I regularly see puppies on sale for close to $3000.

I can`t imagine $100 for a dog. That is guinea pig territory.

3000$ - damn. i know some cost here the same but usually those are bought by rich people who don't know the right people to find them cheaper as we did. or want them with papers. maybe that is why we got them so cheap - they are the real breed with pure blood lines but we didn't ask for papers since we know they can get expensive around here.
or could the high price be because it is hard to import them in Japan?

The price is high in Japan because the prices are high in Japan.
They aren`t imported - they`re bred in the country. There is no real reason other than that they are expensive to begin with, so everyone expects that price and stores sell at that price.

If a store were to sell for cheaper, they actually risk not being able to sell the animal as a highly discounted price implies that there is something wrong.

The average price is just high. This goes for pretty much all breeds other than the native Japanese breeds - Shiba in particular - that you can find for dirt cheap if you look around.

so, in Japan owning a nice dog is like owning a European car? like a BMW or Aston? more or less a symbol of your status?

here animals aren't like that unless you have some really rare breed. but usually average families (like ours) can have some nice breeds also and that wouldn't imply them being rich.

Kind of. If you live in the city and have a dog (which is rare) it would mean you have an apartment big enough and accepts pets, or that you have an actual house- which is extremely expensive in large cities/around large cities.

I don`t really think they are status symbols. What Hinacamui said is true on one front, but another is that they are a sign of being settled down. People don`t have pets when they are renting - it`s sort of part of being settled down permanently.

But really, as I said, pets are just expensive. For dogs to be the equivalent of a European car, there would have to be cheap and common pets. There really aren`t. Having a pet is a luxury of sorts (this doesn`t actually mean it is a status symbol - that would imply that other people would think more highly of someone for owning a pet), so the price just remains high.

Is this true just for pedigrees, or are mongrels much cheaper? I just ask as I know in other countries, like UK and US, you can go to shelters and things and get dogs either free or very cheap, and even if you buy a mixed-breed as a puppy they still tend to be a lot cheaper than pure-breeds. Is Japan like this, so if someone wasn't picky they could get any animal cheap? Or is it all animals regardless of pure-breed or mixed-breed? :confused:

maybe there are animal rescue centres in Japan as there are her in UK. sadly there are far too many animals treated badly and neglected here-- just now too many staffordshire bull terriers end up in shelters.

I hate the idea of the animal cafes in Japan-- it is so unnatural-- but nowadays designer dogs seem to be the rage. I hate it--when breeds are deliberately crossed as is happening here. Our local paper is full of adverts for these designer dogs and they cost sometimes more than a single pedigree breed.

In the old days mongrels were usually available free-- result of accidental matings when dogs roamed the streets.

I recently saw some adverts for pug puppies at a thousand pounds.

People need to think seriously before buying a dog of any kind. It should be a committment for life.

Dogs require registration and yearly fees paid on them. I think this reduces the number of stray and mixed breed dogs about.
Cats are another story altogether though. There are people trying to give away mixed breed cats at every turn and shelters have far too many to be able to ever have any chance to adopt out.

Most mix breed dogs you encounter in Japan are Shiba-mix, and are too big for most people to own. (Apartments and condos that allow pets usually have a size limit.) And as even most people who own homes do not have a lot of outdoor space, larger dogs that need room to run and that don't do well with living indoors tend to get the short end of the stick... Which is why something like 75% of the discarded puppies are large sized Shiba-mixes.

We plan to eventually have a dog, but it is a huge financial investment for anything small. There simply aren't any mix puppies available that are small enough to keep in a condo... Or if they are, they are about the same in price as a pure breed.

As for the cafes, they aren't as strange as they seem. It is usually a regular cafe with some pets running about, or in a small area off of the dining section. You watch them play (or just lie around) while you have something to eat... And then perhaps pet them.

I saw a programme that showed customers taking dogs out for a walk then returning them to the cafe.
Usually dogs become loyal to special owners-- its strange if they have to deal with many strangers all the time.

I also read somewhere that manyjapanese like to dress up their dogs indesigner clothes. Oh dear! They are not dolls to be dressed up. it seems other parts of the world also have owners who also dress their dogs in ridiculous garments.

They dogs do usually have real "owners". At least in the case of the full grown dogs. They are usually taken home by a worker or the shop owner.
Dealing with strangers isn't all that strange if you think of a dog that goes on daily walks and is taken out to parks, etc.
I recall reading about some of the cafes, and the dogs are cycled out by the hour. They aren't forced to sit there and be accosted by strangers all day - they have their time in the spotlight getting lots of attention... And then they go home to rest.

The question with this is; Do the dogs care?
If someone is forcing the animals into clothing, that is a problem. But if the dogs don't really care? Or even enjoy the attention?
I know someone with a small dog that they dress up. The dog loves being dressed up, and will come running if she hears the clothes drawer being opened.

It is no different than collars and leashes. How many dogs can you think of that jump for joy at the sound of their leash? And yet, the leash itself can't be fun on it's own.
It is all relative.

do u really believe that dogs like to be dressed up? for heavens sake they are animals not dolls. Many costumes restrict their natural movement--

Its one thing to put a protective coat against the weather but all this other nonsense is all for the owners to show off their dogs in ridiculous clothes. I am dead against it but who cares when designer dogs and designer clothes are big business.


Japan does not have a good reputation for the way they treat dogs.

At one time there was a company that exported pets to Japan-- from UK and Ireland. Many were purchased by customers pretending to give them a good personal home-- but it was a scam because thousands were exported to place like China and Japan. It had a very bad reputation and genuine breeders were really anti the chikuken company.

I wonder if times are better for animals there than they used to be? I sincerely hope so.

Sadly far too many animals are abused in this world. I still cannot forget the sight of seeing dogs in CHINA being skinned ALIVE and too many being in small crates and just thrown around as if they were not alive.

Is Japan improving in its animal care? The Phillipines where dogs are tied up with their legs twisted behind them. URGH-- human beings that do this sort of thing are not worthy of being called a human being!!!

Maybe you could enquire about the whereabouts of cafe dogs or cats after they approach adulthood.

I think it's possible that some animals can enjoy it.

I can't remember which it was - Twycross Zoo or those PG Tip adverts, or maybe both, lol - but they used to have monkeys dress up as people and play with various toys. I know monkeys aren't the same as dogs, but still . . . the monkeys absolutely adored it, but what with 'animal rights' it was deemed 'cruel' and they were forced to stop dressing the monkeys up. Now apparently the monkeys were upset for a long while afterwards, because - like children - they found it a fun kind of play-time.

Now, dogs aren't like children or monkeys, fair enough, but if the animal isn't distressed then is it really a bad thing? Is it a far jump to assume it might like it? The dogs in the cafes mentioned have been around people and handled since they were puppies, for them it's a daily part of life and something they're used to, and to be dressed means to be handled and played with. I don't know many dogs or breeds who - being handled since birth and around humans - would mind or actively dislike being dressed up.

However if a dog was to show distress or displeasure, then it would be a whole other matter . . . then it's cruelty, and I imagine a lot of adult dogs not used to such behaviour would be displeased, but these are puppies raised in a very different environment to working dogs or regular pets.

Have you actually seen any of the clothes people put on their dogs?
Costumes restrict the natural movement of humans too... If they were not properly designed to fit. That is why there are clothes specifically for animals, and people aren't dressing them up in doll clothes. That would be incredibly uncomfortable and stressful for a dog. A glorified collar with little loops that the legs can go through is NOT. The designer dog clothing is designed not to cause any stress to an animal. How is a protective coat any different if it has decoration of some sort on it? The actual bits worn by the dog are the same. Do you mean to say that a dog can tell the difference between a protective coat and a decorative coat?

Also, I have yet to encounter anyone who dresses their dog up more than on rare occasions. Most "clothing" is indeed protective - rain coats, warmth coats, etc... Just made to look cute or like some other type of clothing.
I have never seen anyone just dress their dog up and parade them around. You are swallowing sensationalist news reports of weird Japan a bit too completely. I would be more than comfortable to say that the great majority of dog owners do not have ANY sort of clothing for their dogs, let alone decorative only. It may make great news to focus on a handful of weird people who dress their dogs up and show them off all the time, but that isn't the reality for 99% of pet owners.

Japan does not have the best reputation for the treatment of stray dogs and of breeder dogs. Pet dogs with private owners are some of the most pampered creatures I have seen.
Breeders, unfortunately, have an awful reputation in pretty much every country out there. If you want horror stories, just do a search on breeder abuse and the name of the country. I have seen stories of dogs being beaten to death, puppies being burnt alive, old birthing dogs being strangled then tossed in the trash, studs being starved to death in sheds... All in the US and UK. Japan doesn't quite take the prize for breeder cruelty.

You have mentioned this before, and while I can see the unhappiness about dogs being sent to China, being as they do import for human consumption and experimental purposes, what is to say that the dogs sent to Japan weren't sold to loving owners? I can hardly see the point of spending the incredible amounts of money it takes to send an animal to Japan just to do something horrible to it. It is a pretty large endeavor to send an animal to Japan - you can't just bring one in. The dog has to have been brought to the country via certain means, and then spend a certain amount of time in quarantine, followed by medical checks, registration, etc. All things that cost money and would make it pointless to bring dogs from overseas if they weren't going to be sold to private owners who would be willing to pay for all of it.
And at the very least, people care enough about the huge sums of money they spent on the pet to not do things that would cause it to die earlier.

Being as Japan does not eat dogs, nor does it sell them in crates on street corners... I have a feeling that there has been nothing comparable to China or the Philippines for a very long time. In cities there just isn't the room for people to hoard and abuse dogs, and they are still a sort of luxury. Of course there are going to be cruel people out there who do horrible things (our own cats were put into a plastic bag in the middle of summer just after birth and tossed into a parked truck's bed) but to let those people color the image of everyone in an entire country is silly. Should I be worried about the treatment of animals in the UK because I can find news stories about abuse?

Also - China is not Japan. They may be close in location, but they are VERY different countries. Please do not let horrors you have seen taking place in China bleed over on to Japan.

I suspect much of the outrage was the fact that people were rocking up telling the breeders they were taking Regent's Fluffybottom to Surrey, and then chucking it on a boat to Shanghai and selling the animal on at profit. So firstly the breeders were losing out on money, and secondly they had no control over who had the dog and what purpose it was used for, rather than concern for it's welfare exactly. Some dogs are sold without the right to breed them, I think, so if someone's breeding them in China for megabucks off of your hard work, then yeah, that's gonna get up people's noses.

That makes complete sense. It was presented as if the fact that they were going to Japan or China was the issue, not the fact that they were being sent abroad altogether. It sounded as if it had been any other country, it wouldn't have been an issue.

There was probably some misunderstanding as well; a lot of people think Asia = animal abuse galore, even with household pets, or assume that like Korea, in Japan dog is eaten.

Japan did have a very bad reputation I assure you.

I have bred dogs for many years and would be terribly upset if any of my puppies had ended up being sent away to unknown future. Its not the money it is the welfare that matters to good breeders who love their animals.

I usually had a waiting list for my own puppies-- and have made many friends through my customers. I only had about two litters a year and could be selective to where they went. Usually when a dog reached old age my customers wanted a replacement from me as they knew the animals would be of good temperament etc.

Ireland at one time was acting as an agent for the chikuken company and there was an uproar about it all. caring breeders are really concerned where there puppies go. sadly there are unscrupulous breeders and puppy farmers who don't care at al what happens to the pups they produce. Often the mother lives in poor conditions and is used to churn out litter after litter. I wish the general public could be educated about where they get their pups from.

just now there are hundreds of stafforshire bull terriers being produced-- they are seen as a MACHO breed-- but too many are ending up in rescue centres. They need neutering so they cannot breed as should cats who can produce three litters a year.Also Pit bulls who are not legal in this country but there seem to be plenty of them as they are used as fighting dogs-- which is also illegal here in UK but it goes on in secret.

I am glad I am no longer breeding because as couples need to work full time that means dogs are often left alone all day. Not good.

My breeds were miniature schnauzers and cairn terriers. around here many dog owners have rescue dogs-many from Ireland and Liverpool.

what spaces are there to exercise dogs? can they use public parks? I had heard of japanese owners getting rid of their dogs by shoving them down a rubbish shute.


I did see a programme about owners with their pampered dogs being forced to wear designer clothes and those dogs were obvioiusly uncomfortable. surely dogs have their own fur? If they were meant to wear silly clothes they would not have their own coat. Maybe breeds like mexican hairless and chinese crested need some warmth-- but sorry I think its just not on to treat dogs like a fashion accessory.

You will not find dog behaviourists approving of it at all. wet weather gear etc OKAy-- but clothes to match the outfit of the owner is ridiculous.
I have seen pictures of AKITAS wearing garments-- well considering the thick coat of the akitas its ridiculous and humilating.

these owners are not dog lovers-- they just like to show off their pet in matching accessories.

Yes there is abuse in this country and that makes me angry too. Breeders need to be extra careful where there pets go.

The RSPCA inspects the homes of people who want their rescue dogs.

It's people who are the problem as always. give me animals any day.

Years ago there was bear baiting with dogs-- these poor bears who were taken and used as a dancing bear-- then dogs would be encouraged to bite them. also badger baiting whicn secretly still goes on

Like the cock fighting and dog fighting. We are supposed to have rid this country but there are always these cruel people who use animals for their own sport. URGH.

People here are very vigilant about walking their dogs. You will see people out at all hours of the day and night taking their dogs on long walks. You can use public parks, though the dogs need to be leashed. However, there are dog friendly parks and dog runs where they do not need to be on a leash and can run about.

While I am sure that maybe there has been someone who has gotten rid of their dog by trash chute, I assure you it is not normal, common, or even vaguely acceptable behavior. There are cruel and terrible people everywhere - as I said, should I be judging everyone in the UK as pet abusers if I can find a story of someone tossing a dog into the trash? Wasn't there a story a bit back about a woman caught on camera chucking cats into trash bins and closing them in there to die in the UK?

Also, I have never seen a rubbish chute in Japan. They are so incredibly rare to begin with that even if everyone who had one were tossing their dogs down it, it would still be less than a fraction of a percent of dog owners.

And as I said before, television loves to hunt down the strangest most extreme examples of anything and treat it as if it is the norm. Should everyone in Japan be judged on the behavior of some strange individuals who dress their dogs up in designer clothing? The great majority does not do this. I am sure that I could find people in the US and UK who do similar things... But because they are not exotic and "strange" like Japan, making a program about them would be no fun as it would be completely clear to anyone watching that not everyone does that. However, when it is somewhere far away like Japan... Well, television knows it can say pretty much anything it likes to get ratings.
Trust me, people display just as much shock and horror at people who treat their dogs like little fashion accessories.

You may not realize it, but most of the photos you see of pets in clothing are one off events. Someone dresses their dog up for a photo (usually for new years cards or the like), takes the picture, and then is done with it. I have never, even once, seen a dog actually being taken out and walked around in anything more fashionable than a raincoat or little booties in the winter.
Does 5 minutes in a little outfit once or twice a year really torture an animal that much? You write as if people put these clothes on them and keep them dressed all the time.

So... Thinking of your pet as close to a child, and wanting to dress them up in a cute outfit for a matching photo is a sign that they do not care about their dog?
I think that the weird culture that has been popularized by socialites in the US of carrying a little dog around like a fancy accessory is silly... But I really do not see why all the dog owners of Japan should be judged based on the behavior of a select few.

This is exactly the point I am tying to make. You are judging Japan based on the behavior of a select few... But at the same time, assigning that same group of select few in your own country to the category they should be assigned to; that of horrible and cruel people who are not the norm.

The worst mainstream problem in Japan are people who get a dog, love the dog, and want the dog to have the "experience" of having puppies... So breed their dog, but then find that they simply cannot deal with a full litter of puppies, especially with mixed sexes and the costs of shots, registration, and preventing more puppies. Add to this that people often think that it would be best for the dog to select their own mates, so do not stick with the same breed... This leads to an unfortunate number of puppies who they are unable to find homes for (most people are wary of private breeders)... This sadly leads to puppies being sent to shelters, where the majority inevitably end up being disposed of.
I have, sadly, heard of more than a couple cases of people who bred their dog, got her fixed immediately, wanted to keep all the puppies... But took too long to get the puppies fixed and ended up with a litter between siblings. And no one wants any puppies that are at a high risk of health problems due to inbreeding.

The fact is, most people simply cannot have pets due to their housing arrangements. The people who do have pets usually care very very much about them. Getting a dog here is not something you can do on a whim... There is just too much of a financial burden.

I do not trust dedicated breeders (dedicated as that is their main source of income, not their feelings toward the work) here or in any other country. But I do trust private owners, as I have seen nothing but loved and pampered dogs in my years of living here.

you do not trust dedicated breeders. Why?

I loved my dogs very much indeed. I tried to improve them. If you mean breeders who simply do it for money then they are just moneymakers and not dog lovers.

I have worked with animals all my adult life-- I fell in love with my two breeds so once I was able to do so I wanted to have a few and breed them and show them.

It was a hobby and certainly not money making-- quite the reverse I assure you.

If there were not didicated breeders who loved their particular breeds and tried to improve them and make many people happy. where would the breeds disappear to?

Puppy farmers are the type who breed for money. Not many small breeders such as myself make anything at all--there are many heartbreaks in breeding.

I never had a family so for me my dogs made up for that lack and I do not regret a minute of my life with animals. I learned that too many human beings could not be trusted--.

If customers want a quality dog of a particular breed they need to go to small breeders who dedicate their lives to their particular breed.

There would not be specific breeds available if not for these type of breeders.

That is why I had waiting lists for my pups-- because I had a good reputation and customers were willing to wait for a pup from me.


I now have a little affenpinscher-- and they are rare so I was prepared to wait for this little dog who has enhanced our lives.If not for specialist breeders I would never have been able to get our our little dog. If the public are more careful where they purchase animals from, maybe there would not be so much neglect or animals have all sorts of things wrong with them.

My little dog would not suit a cafe-- because he is very loyal to us- yes he is friendly to others and people but he loves us and would not follow other people/ Our cairn terriers loved everybody especially children--.


anyway-- I have had my say-- I wish that only animals were bred who would end up in good loving homes.

I did not say that the Japanese were still cruel to their pets- but that they had a reputation for that several years ago.

The japanese akita is extremely popular here-- but the owners need to understand the nature of such a breed before taking them on. Half the problem is when people take on a breed that is unsuited to their owners lifestyle. People need to think more carefully before committing themselves to taking on any animal.

this is an interesting titbit about the famous deafblind lady-- Helen Keller and an Akita breeder.


Hellen Keller and Akitas there is also mention about the japanese chikuken company.


Palette Town, Odaiba, Tokyo, Japan Travel Guide - Happy Jappy

I meant to add that here in UK dogs are not allowed in restaurants unless they are guide dogs


just been looking at a pet store and I hated it. Apart from unnatural conditions for those animals-- it leads to impulse buying which is not good at all.

Animals for sale - YouTube

Pet Stores in Japan - YouTube

On getting rid of dogs this is to be found in the litter regulations for my city.
Quite darkly amusing and wtf worthy. Sounds quite callous.
But...well from what I've seen folk here do look after their dogs. These puppy cafes though...I do worry.

Please read all of what I wrote. I said breeders who made a living off of breeding. There are too many puppy mills out there, and I tend to be concerned that any major breeder that does nothing but breeding may be just a facade for something less pleasant. Anyone can make a stylish page or have a stylish storefront - but be hiding a bunch of sickly dogs in tiny cages.
Small breeders, with only a litter or two every few months, are much more trustworthy and likely to have healthy and well cared for pets to offer - as I am sure you know.

I definitely agree with you on this. I think our opinions on what is a happy life and loving home just differ a bit.

They aren`t allowed in here either unless the business is dedicated to having them in (like cafes catering to people walking their dogs with small dog play areas and dog treats on sale) or where the animals are a significant part of the business.

The first link is NOT in Japan. East Asia, but not Japan. I do not know what they are speaking, but it is not Japanese from what I can hear... Not to mention that I do not believe it is even legal in Japan to sell some of those animals, and to sell them on the street like that. I have never seen puppies (or any other animals, to be honest) on display like that and I have been all over the country. No one would buy from someone so sketchy and suspicious looking.

The second shows a bunch of scattered shots of different pets on display - without any explanation other than those filming wondering whether the pets were on sale for pets or food... Which says a lot for their bias, in my opinion. In pet shops here there is usually a front display area with a small pen where a dog or other pet is put on display for an hour or so then cycled out. In most pet shops, the dogs are behind windows - often with a large open air play area that they take turns in.

Pet shops are, well, shops. I doubt any can really offer a natural sort of environment for larger pets.

Impulse buying is VERY hard in Japan as you usually need to take out financing for any larger pet. I don`t think most people just carry about 250,000 yen (US$3250, GBP2010) in their pocket to spend on a whim. Although I have been tempted on occasion when a puppy in a play pen nearly jumped out with joy at seeing my son and kept watching him and whining for us... She was getting a bit big so was on sale for 120,000 too.....

ETA;
To give an idea of how the most common pet shop chain is set up - Here is a picture of the way the storefront area where the pets are on display is designed:

There are individual areas for the puppies to rest, and a large play space where they take turns running around and playing with the other puppies.

Most people have full out funerals for their pets if possible. We have a life insurance policy on our cats (well, more like a funeral fund - we pay into it and get back what we paid plus some amount of interest when they pass away) to help pay for their funerals. There are all sorts of plans available from full out funeral including proper grave linked to a prominent temple, to a bouquet of flowers and a quick cremation.
The second most common option is a cremation truck - they will come to site, do a small private funeral, then cremate and give you the ashes (and also offer you small grave stones for placement at home.)

It is only the last resort to take the pet to the place listed there. Usually it is for almost stray cats that passed away on someone`s property... Or when there really isn`t enough money to do the most basic cremation.

Here is a pet funeral home and crematory close to where I live.