still killing whales
 

Japan says it has caught 195 whales in northwest Pacific ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

what do you think?

Due to some computer troubles, I can't load the site just yet, but I'm guessing you're essentially asking how we feel about whale-hunting?

To be honest I won't say I support it, just because I dislike the killing of animals in general (unless it's say something like fox-hunting, where foxes do a considerable ammount of damage). I think in a way it's cruel, and a shame as whales are endangered, but at the same time - logically speaking - what reason do they have to stop hunting?

I mean logically if you stop hunting one animal then you could argue we should stop hunting all animals, and then that we shouldn't kill any animals, even for food . . . to me it's a rather tenuous argument, plus I dislike when other cultures/countries judge Japan for whale-hunting. England has fox-hunting, Spain has bull-fighting . . . we need to look at ourselves before we criticise others.

Out of curiousity, what is your position on the matter? Clearly it's important to you in order to raise the issue, but you seem to have left out your own opinion :confused:

No doubt this has been discussed previously ad infinitum. It is the barbaric way they are killed that upsets me. That as well as the dolphin killing-- also barbaric methods.


Do I really have to explain my feelings?

It seems that with your logic that because other animals etc are killed-- there is nothing wrong with killing the whales and dolphins.

Same as the slaughter of seal cubs is barbaric. If creatures Have to be killed then at least it should be done more humanely than happens.

If we no longer Care-- then what does that make us?

PS in this day and age bull fighting should be stopped and so much other cruelty to animals.

actually in the UK there is a law about hunting with dogs. No longer allowed.


Usually when dogs hunt they kill outright go for the jugular.

I don't really think there's such a thing as humanely killing animals, particularly dolphins and whales. You can put an animal down, but that's not what fisherman are going for.
In fact, unless you go out of your way to buy things like free range products, all of the meat you consume is from chickens and other animals that have no better living conditions or deaths than the whales here in question, if not worse, I'd say.

You should watch Food, Inc. to see what humane conditions we let cattle, chickens, pigs, etc. "live" in before they are slaughtered for our consumption.

I would assume the International Whaling Commission would say something if Japan is taking too many whales for research. Japan is not allowed to hunt whales for commercial ends. At least Japan abides by the 1982 moratorium, while Norway, who registered an objection, is not bound by the moratorium and still does commercial whaling. Their quota for this year is 1286 out of the estimated 102,000 Minke whales there are said to inhabit the North Atlantic waters.

I'm not defending Japan in this matter. If there are sufficient number of a species, then I don't see why not. Overpopulation of one species can severely decrease the numbers of its prey, another species-just a thought.

Pretty much this.
Cultural barriers always create these issues.

I used to behave like dogsbody70 when I was younger, I stopped caring when I realized it was pointless to do so,my own efforts to improve were futile(and collective are as well).

No matter how hard you try, problems like this can only stop temporarily, sooner or later they will rise again.

But whatever, I am a misanthrope,I am too biased.

We humans are experts in fighting among ourselves.

Wolves will nip at prey and follow it for hours, gradually wearing it out. Predators all kill in the most effcient manor available for thier body type, so they don't burn needless energy or cause undue injury to themselves. Mercy has nothing to do with it, it's purely selfish.

There is a history of whaling from some ports in Japan but there's nothing historically or culturally significant about sending fishing fleets all the way down to Antarctica to get whales. If the Japanese wish to maintain some cultural connection to whaling then do it in their own waters. But if they wish to do it international waters then they can expect international condemnation. I for instance don't really have any major issue with the dolphin hunt in Taiji. It is incredibly graphic and somewhat cruel but as others have pointed out this isn't unique to killing dolphins. But if Japan moves their whale fleets into international waters in the NW Pacific or the waters around Antarctica then the international community have every right to demand they cease such operations.

I think I don't care, because whales, dolphins, or whatever are not equal with people and should not be thought of as such. So do I think it is ridiculous to single out one species for special treatment, absolutely. However, I firmly believe we need to be responsible about how we hunt, and treat our environment.

As far as slaughtering goes, the cold hard fact is that nature and the wild are no more forgiving than a bullet or whatever at the slaughterhouse. The sheer law of nature is survival of the fittest. So what difference does it really make if we kill animals (responsibly) for our own use/consumption.

Now could we do things to maybe treat those animals better, probably, but remember this is a completely human notion. If the tables were turned animals/nature, would not give a shit how we lived, or died.

Japan should quit its voluntary membership with the IWC.

Take as many whales as we see fit off of our local waters and leave the whales out in international waters alone.

I think it's the west that is barbaric and cruel. they are the ones that brought whales to the brink of extinction. Hell, they are the ones that bring everything to the bring of destruction!

Like the way beef, chicken and pork is handled isn't cruel and barbaric? lol
Mad-cow disease( deadly to humans) happens because infected cow brains are feed to other cows! What type of sick morons do thing like that? What about artificially impregnating a cow to keep it's mother making milk year round? most of the male calfs are killed right after birth to provide western 'Veal'.


Final point, NONE of the whales Japan are taking are in danger of extinction. Ultimately the argument against Japanese whaling ends up to be a cultural one. Westerners find whales cute and think it's wrong that Japanese eat them. Strange to be criticized by people that do/have done so much cruel and immoral things to animals.

killed whales
 

Barbarism, plain and simple. Let's call a spade a spade.

^ Lol. so educated are we? In my experience, the only people who think whaling is unconditionally Barbaric are buzy body red-necks. :mtongue:

For me the real interesting issue in all this is why does Japan continue whaling. Commercially the industry is a dud and only survives with huge government subsidies. There is only a very small market for whale meat in Japan, way smaller than the amount they catch each season. I doubt very much if most Japanese would even support the industry if they had any facts on it. There is almost universal condemnation from other countries for the continuation of the industry. The industry doesn't really employ that many people and few if any communities are totally reliant on the revenue from the industry. The 'science' angle of the industry is just a complete joke. The cultural angle in my opinion is also a joke considering that most of the catch is taken from the Southern Ocean around Antarctica. There is nothing cultural about that whatsoever.
So why continue? What is the benefit for Japan?

Personally I believe it's politically expediant as it's a very simple way for the government to pander to extreme right wing and nationalist groups in the country. They love nothing more than telling foreigners to go get stuffed and the whaling industry is symbolic of this for them. I truly think if there wasn't such international condemnation then the industry just would have died the natural death of any other unprofitable inddustry. But it's now expedient to prop it up to appease the extremists for a few extra votes come election time.

cheap shot
 

Uneducated rednecks did not kill whales. Japanese savages did.
So, try again;)

Is Chiuchimi Chinese?

China takes bears and keeps them trapped in a cage for many years-- where it cannot move-- whilst Bile is taken from it-- for what?

I have seen videos of the cruelty to many cats and dogs-- including skinning alive.

If animals could talk things would change.

why should human beings think they can treat animals in any way? Animals feel pain just as humans do.

I am anti factory farming---------I abhor animal testing in laborotories-- yet I use drugs--- Isn't it time more tests should be made on human beings?


We exploit animals terribly.

Why Japan pretends they kill whales for research-- How ridiculous is that.

Surely in this day and age a more humane way should be found to kill them than occurs at present.


Also people who think they are superior to animals-- should behave better.

There for the grace of God they could be born as an animals that might be slaughtered and killed.

where possible farm animals should be treated properly--. I think we would all be vegetarian if we understood how badly many farm animals are treated

You know, you sound like an American telling all the rest of the world what type of governments they should have, what type of customs they should have, what they should do with thier women and so on.

Honestly, if American's trying to "improve the world" as they see it, just pisses everybody off. Don't you think yelling at china about bears and japan about whales is kinda like the same thing?

I don't disagree with you completely about the mis trearment of animals, I just liked makeing the point as an example that everyone, somewhere, has something they believe in so strongly that they think everybody else should believe the same way.

As a interesting irony, In my home state of Iowa some peta folks, angery about the Mink farms here, released 5000 minks from thier cages in "protest" about cruelty to animals. Guess what? nearly every one of them was killed by a car within hours, the highway had thousands of mink corpses stretched along the shoulders. Those minks had been liveing in cages thier whole life, they had no idea what "life" was like outside that. So tell me, who was cruel here?

I suggest the mods to close this thread before flame wars commence.
This topic involves too much morality, thus the opinion from all sides will always differ a lot.

I could explain why taking murderings (of any kind) are nothing to really care about, but then I would involve myself in the previously mentioned flame wars.

Because someone with money, somewhere, likes to eat whales.

Follow the money trail, there is always a money trail.

I already gave the answer above why they continue. It's not about making money, the industry loses money. There are allegations of Yakuza involvement and corruption but they're pretty hard to substantiate. I still believe it's mostly for political expediancy to appease the ultra nationalists and extreme right wing elements in Japanese society. Simple as that.

Wich again is about the money. Someone's palm gets greased because of it. Money doesn't have to be made on the whaling itself...but money is involved in the polotics of it.

Japan to hold whale hunts despite activist threats - Yahoo! News

Just a link I found today that talks about Japan's intent to continue whale-hunting, and the reasons why they continue to do so. I thought it might be of interest to the thread.

Personally the reasons given that it's for research into whale populations seems rather ridiculous, particularly as the hunting would diminish the whale population which would then undermine the point of the research, which is to prove that whale numbers are sufficient enough to lift a whaling ban. It seems like a rather transparent guise simply to hunt more whales. Not to mention that - as I believe others may have mentioned - whale meat is still purchaseable in Japan, so obviously it's not entirely for research.

I also worry about the human side of this. They say they're upping security to keep the whalers safe from activists, but knowing how determined and violent activisits can get I wonder if the whalers can actually ever be safe in international waters. It seems like a great risk to human life to me, and perhaps it would be best to whale-hunt solely in Japanese waters?

Contradiction much?

I don't think any animal is equal to Humans. Simply because if they were, then we would be nothing but animals and the rule of reason and law would no longer apply. Only the rule of the Jungle........The strong survive, the weak get eaten.

However, that doesn't mean Humans should hold other animals in such contempt we don't treat them at least with a certain amount of compasion..cause how we would treat animals is how we would treat each other.

Sorry, I don't mean to be 'that nitpicking guy', but technically humans are classed as animals ^^;
I think I know what context you're saying it in, however.
In that sense, I see it as humans being terrible animals, because if you dump the Average Joe in the lion infested jungle, I bet he'd be having the meat picked off his bones before he could even conceive the thought of building a trap...
If we had the technology stripped from us so that we're just as natural as the rest of the animal kingdom, humans really aren't that great.

Humans can kill a lion with sharpened sticks, The Massi do it all the time. We have something no animal has in combination. The biggest brain, an apposable thumb, and self awareness.

I guess so, a long time ago humans were good animals and some still are today. But if you dropped say... a businessman in the jungle with literally nothing, not even a knife or a sharpened stone, do you think he'd even know how to sharpen a stick properly? Who knows, it can't be the most difficult thing in the world, but I bet he'd be pray before he could figure it out properly.

No, Mr. nitpicky, to me humans and animals are distinguished from one another. Other than what we have in common as carbon based lifeforms living on planet earth, the similarities pretty much end there.

Yes if you just droped a buisiness man with out experiance in that enviroment he would prolly be worm food...However, he can learn and be taught and adapt very quickly.

Good Idea, Quit being a member of that stupid IWC and hunt only in Japanese waters. Then it's no ones business but ours.:D

Also,

NOTICE
for anyone that's got real evidence that Japan has gone against IWC rules. Please post it here. I will personally Email it to the IWC.

:ywave:

I'm so over this issue.

The Japanese government continues to fund this dead industry why?

Are they stupid?

The country is in debt...

Recent tsunami and earthquakes have destroyed a lot of it...

The whaling industry runs at a LOSS and does nothing but provoke international condemnation...

Japan's goal is the return of commercial whaling but as we saw in the mid twentieth century... it can only end up bad for the environment.

Also.. to those that are FOR Japanese whaling... Do you trust big corporations with the environment? Because that's what you're permitting.

As I mentioned earlier... Japanese whaling runs at a loss and depends on government funding.

The incentive to overhunt is clear.

You see how Wall Street reacts to incentive with the financial crisis and US economic recession.

You see how BP reacts to incentive when it cuts corners on safety regulations.

If commercial whaling is reinstated you will see the Japanese whaling industry react to the incentive to turn a profit (business 101).

Naturally this means overhunting.

^ finally some real arguments.

I don't think the government should do any form of subsidizing. Japan should whale in coastal waters only and the industry should be regulated like with the rest of the fishing industry. By Japan and not the IWC.

If the industry goes bankrupt. then that's the way it should be. If whaling proves profitable and sustainable in Japan then that's OK too.

The case of migratory whales that stop in japan should not be whaled until enough data about them is gathered.

I agree with Ronin but he hasn't really added anything to what has already been said. Why do they continue? It's not economic reasons, we all know that. I believe it's politically motivated. Anyone have any other reason?

Fox Hunting? You mean like where you have 50 hounds and 20 dudes on horses run down a small dog? Real Sporting of you, ol chap. By the way, Foxes are just regular predators that hunt to keep thier babies fed, unlike humans who hunt to keep thier trophy wall fed.

It's kind of obvious you're not from England, or at least not the countryside . . . foxes are not regular predators who hunt only for food. Foxes will literally kill every single chicken in a coop, all in order just to take one chicken away for food, and the damage they do is short of sheer carnage. The farmers struggle sometimes - especially in the past - to keep foxes away and keep animals safe. Seeing as farmers need to keep a living, it's not just a 'sport' as such, but instead provides an actual purpose.

Fox hunting keeps fox numbers down, thus protecting the farms and the animals that exist on those farms. The kills are quick, and now - with the new laws - even quicker seeing as I believe farmers aren't allowed to kill on these hunts, but can shoot the foxes if they appear on their land, so a bullet is far more human than hounds tearing at the fox.

There is a 'sporting' aspect to it, and I know the general image of fox-hunting is a lot of posh people in red-coats hunting an 'innocent', cute fox . . . but there is a practical aspect to it. I fully support the farmers or country-side dwellers who hunt or exterminate foxes, and - for that matter - I support the city folk who do the same, because (let's face it) the foxes do a lot of damage in cities, too.

Sorry for the off-topic aside, but had to get that in.

You're responding to a spambot....

also foxes would have to be destroyed if rabies entered this country because they would spread it very quickly.

A top marksman is required to shoot a fox immediately.

at present there is talk of having to cull badgers again because of the spread of TB in cattle. I am unsure how they cull them perhaps they gas them.

TB is a terrible disease-- needs to be avoided at all costs.

Geez people, look how casual you are about "culling badgers" and killing foxes straight away because they kill all the chickens. Now I'm not apposed to haveing a farmer protect his property from predators or disease. The point is, the Japanese are just as casual about killing whales and the Chinese the same with bears. So isn't this more about the pot calling the kettle black?

i plead a little ignorance here, but would liek to ask why are the whales hunted> for food?

The Japanese goverment says it's for research. But at this point it's a bit implausible. They more likely do it for food.
But whatever the reason, there is a maximum amount of whales they can catch and they stick to that agreement. So the SS has no right to intervene.