Syrian people killed every day !!! where are you humans !!
 

You all know what happens in Syria, crimes everywhere ..
Since a period , a few group of people came and arrested 20 children and executed them by firing squad in Homs ..
2500 people HAVE BEEN KILLED HERE !!
There are three things that kill innocent people in Syria : American , Russian , Arabic and Western Government, the ruling regime in Syria, the stupidity of some people in Syria who use weapons ..
Security Council is only Funny Theatre !! , I don't care what happens in the Security Council ....
The United States and Russia want their interest ,The Syrian regime doesn't serve the interests of United States , The Syrian regime serves the interests of Russia, the Syrian regime killed people, and people defend themselves and killing the soldiers, no one cares about the Syrian blood, no one cares about morality or human blood, it's a world of interests and interests only, a lot of people had been killed in Gaza and the United States have supported Israel ....
A lot of people only interested in sex, and sit on the beach, drinking alcohol, drug, buy modern vehicles, styling their hair in a strange and silly style to To draw the attention of people , and shows the people and says :" Look at my hair!! It's beautiful!! " then his freinds say: Waaaaaaaaaaawww ........... And other silly things that people became interested in them while the people starve in Somalia and the people in Palestine and Syria die by bullets...
When I see people like these , I hate myself as a human !!!
So Who lose finally ?? The Syrian people, all humanity is losing here, Damn to the language of interests !!! you stupid humans!! There is a thing is more important than interests , that thing is love, that thing is the cooperation in order to build a future for all and know the purpose of our existence ...
I still believe that there are still good people and they want everyone to live happiness regardless of the language of interest ....
I do not want from the Western and Easten people to help us by sending NATO warplanes and shelling here and there , I just want from them to get out to the streets in the thousands and Sympathize the Syrian people for their sacrifices ​​for Their country, The Syrian people went down to the street, men , womens and children to face the bullets of security forces and the military and guns, topless, they want the demands of human , as well as facing America's attempts to interfere in its affairs, one word dropped all this blood : WE WANT FREEDOM !!!

Not likely going to happen Kozyra. Some Americans still remember the Danceing in the streets when the twin towers collapsed, the rest don't much care. Kinda tired of being labled "the great satan" by everybody anyway, so less and less willing to help.

Freedom has to be fought for. Liberty won't stand by you if you won't bleed for her. She's a heavy task mistress and many people can't withstand the weight of her yolk. This fight you have, you have to do yourself, and it won't be cheap, freedom is the most exspensive lady in the world and she only accepts blood as payment.

Americans know this because we pay her "bride price" at Arlington cemetary every day. Are you ready for that Kozyra? are you ready for the Gardens of Stone?

stop panic
 

My 2 cents.
Solve your domestic problems by your own hands or you'll get the second Libya with all negative consequences. That's all.

Humans being humans.

STOP THE PRESS THIS IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE

Syrian opposition thought that they can win this fight by peaceful protests, some in the opposition are still thinking like that. That is naive, I agree with Ryzorian on this one.

Its not 2500 people dead, I saw some place that Army defectors mentioned that 5000 people are dead already.

The Syrian regime convinced the Alawites that if the regime is toppled they will be doomed. In reality it is the regime that is digging the grave for 10% Alawite minority.

Here are the steps the opposition needs to take:

- Opposition has finally united in a council in Turkey so that is a good step
- now they need to convince the minorities like Kurds, Christians and Alawites that they will not be persecuted in a new Democratic Syria under majoritarian or Salafi rule, they need to be won over with real promises of minority protection and effective stakeholder role in the democratic process
- army defectors must be organized and helped from Turkish, Jordanian and Iraqi border camps to supply arms and run training camps for volunteer fighters
- main weapon of Syrian army are tanks and armored personnel carriers, so these has to be neutralized with anti tank RPG's
- minority Kurds, Christians and Alawites should be given a prominent role to lead this fight so they have the opportunity to prove their loyalty for the Syrian armed struggle for freedom

There is enough willing volunteers to fight in Syria, funding can come from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and other international sources. A comprehensive plan need to be made for the armed struggle and then go for execution of the plan. If the Syrian Air force is provoked to respond then demand can be made for No Fly Zone, but they will avoid using the Air force for this reason. Turkey is waiting in the sidelines and watching the situation, Iran is putting pressure on them not to intervene.

Bottom line is, Syrian opposition need to make a plan and take the decisive step, only then others will come forward to help if they see a real plan and action on the ground. For too many months Syrian opposition wasted their effort in a peaceful movement, while Assad took the opportunity to try to cleanse the opposition leadership. I think it is dawning on the opposition that this tactic is a mistake on murderous regimes. Better late than never. Gaddafi made the mistake of large scale killing and using Air force, so international community had an excuse to intervene - Assad is an idiot but shrewd enough to not repeat these mistakes. Also unlike Libya, Syria does not have much oil.

So in short, make a plan, get partners for fund, arms, border camps etc. and start executing the plan. Gandhi's peaceful protest has its place, this is not one of them.

Well these people are stupid too whatever their country or religion .
But how?? no one of the parties wants a talk to each other , and when people take to the streets, security men shot them, and some people bear weapons for defend .
Absolutely true, the problem is that the Syrian opposition is consistent and there is already a split in it, especially the opposition at home , there is no satisfaction for the Syrian opposition here in Syria , and for a number of the dead there are many of those who died here and there, and no one knows about them, because the Syrian army buried the dead and body parts in the gardens !!

I'll tell you what happened in the US dureing our break away from Britain in 1776. We did get help from France near the end..But they didn't give us Public support until we could proove to them that we could defeat a British army, on the field of battle, on the British army's terms.

International support will more than likely only be supplied if the Syrian alliance or whatever those groups want to call themselves actually meet the Syrian army in battle, on the Syrian army's terms..and wins. That's going to be a very difficult road to tread.

So you just start attacking countries... Then sure people are going to change their minds about you.. NOT

Please stop being ignorant Ryzorian.

im seriously tired of countries asking for help from us only to turn around next week and burn our flag and call us the "The great Satan" i use to be a bleeding heart liberal but honestly in my later years im finding it harder to care. I will never forget them dancing in the streets when the towers fell its burned in my mind forever. Ryzorian is not being ignorant its obvious you dont understand the complexities of international relations and foreign policy.

Do i feel for the Syrian people sure i do i feel for the people who are just trying to raise their families and get by, the ones that induce the violence i wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

Im sorry but if you want a free country you have to fight for it. Freedom is not free and the asking price for freedom is usually blood. You want it badly enough fight for it just like other countries have done in the past. The UN is not just going to send troops or start airstrikes like in Libya. There needs to be formal resistance and they must meet the government on the field of battle and actually win. Also, there needs to be cohesion in the ranks and there is not there is a split if they cant work together for a common goal no No country especially the US will risk an all out war in an already unstable region.

I do not support a intervention in Syria at this time.

France first aid to the US during the Revolutionary War came early in the war - in the form of gunpowder. 'In aid given covertly by France, ( roughly a million pounds worth ) much of which passed through the neutral Dutch West Indies port of Sint Eustatius, contributed to George Washington's survival against the British onslaught in 1776 and 1777.

No proof of defeat or anybodys term was needed for Frances aid beyond Frances own foriegn policy towards Britain.

I don't know much about Syria but I can tell you that a goverment that asks for help and all people of that country supporting their goverment are two different things.

Achieving physical freedom with violence is possible, altough you never get peace that way. But do you really want "freedom" if it means hurting other people? I certainly don't.. As soon as you start using violence you don't deserve freedom anymore.
The only proper way of achieving physical freedom is by making all goverment officials realise they need to stop being the power drunk idiots that they are. And that's perfectly possible without violence.

Actually Ryozorian is being ignorant.

He's dreamed up some bogus theory about how the world works and cherry picked moments in history to support it while ignoring things like the independence movement in India or the US civil rights movement and even the more recent Egypt uprising (which were largely peaceful).

And you are being ignorant with your characterization of Syrian people.

Do you see how fluffy0000 interjected and corrected some misunderstandings with some historical facts?

It's a better way than than just calling people ignorant without any facts or evidence as if we're just supposed to go "yep. He knows what *he's* talking about. You know he's cross-eyed so, obviously, his word is law." Also, it's ironic how you point out someone is cherry picking specific moments in history but then throw out 2 or 3 (of what I would call) examples as if that couldn't be labeled "cherry picking" by your own definition.

I'm no history buff but I doubt anyone is going to agree that the road to freedom that the majority of societies over the past 5,000 years of history traveled upon was in the form of peaceful demonstrations rather than fighting for it.

Whose ignorant now Bioot...no I'm jk. lol I'm not trying to fight because I think we're all ignorant in varying degrees on a variety of topics and we should refute with facts (as we see it) in a polite tone rather than just writing people off. I'm a sensitive guy what can I say.

Um How am I cherry picking?

I haven't put forward a theory on the way the world works.. just debunking Ryozorians theory using events that don't correspond with it or can you not read?

And I did give facts.. or are you denying that the Indian independence movement, the Egyptian uprising and the US civil rights movement never happened? You can throw in the womans suffrage movement in for good measure too.

As for your theory about the last 5000 years. It's just as bogus. I mean for a start what we imagine to be "freedom" is very recent so I'm not sure what sort of point you're trying to make.

Fluffy; The French didn't "Publicly" Support....there's a big difference in covert and overt support. France was at war with Britain at the time and the idea of covertly supporting an upriseing was appealing becuase it could draw troops away from France. It's why Britain hired Hessian mercs to fight in the Revolution...though ironically, by the end of the war 8,000 of the orginal 12,000 Hessians were fighting for the US.


Ronin, Egypt is being over run by The Islamic brotherhood and killing coptic christians by the hundreds. India? They meerly took advantage of the fact Britain was in Geat Decline by then and more than glad to be rid of the problem, plus didn't gandi get like..I don't know, KILLED? The Civil Rights movement? HELLO? Martin Luther King SHOT DEAD...are you kidding me? just trying to get civil rights was bought for with BLOOD. Freedom DEMAND'S a blood price..If you aren't willing to pay it..you don't deserve to be free.

Your niave, like the 2 yearold who didn't understand why the robber killed his parents.

lol

Do you know the difference between a violent uprising and a peaceful one?

Just because they were shot dead doesn't mean they weren't non-violent resistance movements.

I don't have time to address your revisionist history (BIG lol at the Islamic Brotherhood bullsh*t) but regardless.. those "points" you've brought up regarding the events I mentioned don't belie the fact that I've proven your "theory" is bogus and you're full of sh*t.

Well Ronin i wont bite on this one. Ill just say this.

-No airstrikes by the US
-No Boots on the ground by the US
-No Invention by the US without a Coalition and even then a limited roll


You want freedom fight for it its not FREE it cost blood, sweat and tears and right now i dont see a coordinate resistance in Syria. Therefore i dont support any action other sanctions. I will not support something that is going to lead to all out war or other countries bitching that the US has again invaded another Muslim country.

so if you have all the answers how about you go to Syria and solve the problem yourself.

In which world do you live?!!... The only thing you deserve when you shoot and murder someone is JAILTIME.

why I can see United States in anywhere ?????

France was not at war with Britain in 1776' dude.

Your entitiled to your own opinions not your own facts.

The Revolutionary War, began as a war between Great Britain and thirteen British colonies in North America, and ended in a global war between several European great powers.
France did not declare war until 1778' & Spain and the Dutch Republic—French allies also entered war at this time.

I understand you not supporting US intervention.

What I don't understand is your bitterness directed at the Syrian people who are trying to overthrow their tyranical dictator.

It actually comes accross as simple minded bigotry.

PS- There is a coordinated resistance in Syria or have you not noticed the HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE PROTESTING?

Also elements of the military seem to be defecting at the moment so who knows.

So I don't know how much blood sweat and tears is required for freedom according to you. I mean is there a minimum requirement or are you just talking out of your ass?

Well, you both are using examples to support your theory based on a few instances in history. He used an example and you used a couple to prove your point. You accused him of 'cherry picking' while you 'cherry picked' a few moments in history to prove your point.

No need for the insult because I can read just fine. Ryozorian is simply stating how he views the world. It might not be how you view the world and events but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong or right. Would a peaceful movement have worked against the British when America was trying to break free? Would a violent resistance have worked in Egypt? Maybe, maybe not. Though the measures used in each situation were different both met with 'freedom'.

Ironically, the examples you gave kind of prove Ryozorian's point that the masses won't care until a party is named and winning against the tyrannical opponent. I'm going to go out on a limb and say most people in the United States didn't pay much attention to Egypt until the masses identified themselves, their objectives, and started to gain recognition for the possibility of [winning] overthrowing their government.

The only difference I see in your arguments is the way to go about protesting freedom: whether with violence or peaceful demonstration.


Yes, they did indeed happen! They were good points to bring up btw. Peaceful resistance can be much more effective than violence.


It's funny how even in our great 'freedom' a lot of people still complain about being "controlled" by the corporate entities or government or caught in the "rat race". So freedom is a definition wide open and always changing.

My point was that peaceful resistance is relatively new as I see it. Fighting for 'freedom' has been around for 1000s of years and most freedoms were fought for.

Freedom 1000 years ago that villages, cities, etc fought for might not be the same freedom as we view it today but was freedom in that time period.

Sorry what theory am I putting forward?

Am I not allowed to challenge him on that?

You do realize that this is what I was implying right? Whether a revolution is successful or not depends on the circumstances of the time. Not on some bullsh*t trend that you've pieced together from unrelated cherry picked events. (What Ryozorian was doing)

It's the only point I really took issue with. There is more bullsh*t that spews from Ryozorian's keyboard that I didn't address though. (Like the idea that the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt orchestrated the uprising) But I don't really want to chase that rabbit as in past experiences with him I've never reached the end usually coming back to the beginning because he has no conception of logic or reason. (Check out the other thread on 9/11 that has turned into a global warming debate because of him lol)

Agree

Agree.. and my point is that this is irrelevant.

Agree

Sigh, Freedom demands the blood of those who would be free. That's what I'm saying. Those who fought for freedom..REGAURDLESS of thier method, had to shed their blood to win it. By the way, very few "peaceful" atempts win..they useually get run over by tanks, like what happened in China.

Ronin, The Islamic Brotherhood is now directly tied to the Egyptian Military. They really are attacking coptic christians, they really are trying to forge connections with the islamic brotherhood in Lybia. This has been a goal of thiers for a long time. Haveing a rebuilt caliphate is thier utlimate goal...and at they rate they are going will achieve it in short order. They also plan to attack Isreal as soon as they are able.

This is happening right now, as we speak. Yet you choose to ignore the truth of the matter for some fantasy about "Arab Spring". It's not going to be what you think Ronnin. Forces are in play that you lack the understanding of.


As to France..the French and Britian were fighting in multiple wars dureing that period..In fact the French and Indian war wasn't that long ago from 1776. It was more like a period between rounds. So while they may not have been involved in a fighting war at the time..they VERY much were in a cold war..and the French used the US as a Proxy. Kinda like what Russia did with Vietnam.

If that is all your point was then that really goes without saying.

I thought you were implying that the Syrians were not "bleeding" for their freedom and that armed resistance was the only way for Syrians to succeed.

But in fact I've just realised that you're implying something much worse.

That you don't care because you're American.

As for your "Islamic Brotherhood" bullsh*t.... You see what I mean Ohaiyou?

NO Ronin, I don't care. They didn't care when The towers were destroyed, I don't care what happens there. That's THEIR problem, they can handle it. If you want to help in thier plight, then I suggest you buy a ticket, fly to Syria and put your money where your mouth is. I'm on the side of Isreal and will allways be.

As to The Islamic Brotherhood, I know where I stand, they know where they stand. You may be forced to choose sides in a Global war you don't understand, and if you choose poorly, you will not know mercy.

There you say that freedom DOESN'T demand a blood price.
So you do know the truth but,

A) you're ignoring it because you like violence.
or
B) you're too lazy to work a little harder for your freedom and you just go with the majority of people..

You're an idiot.

Honestly Ronin, I would rather be an idiot who was right, than a brilliant person who was wrong. But then it doesn't matter does it? Niether of us are in a position where we can change what is going to happen in the Middle East, reguardless of who believes what.

Dragon NL; I'm telling you that if you want to be free you have to shed your blood for it, and yes, more than likely, shed the blood of those who will take your freedom from you. Your not going to get it singing "kumbahya give peace a chance." Those who want to be free, have to fight for it because those who don't want you to be free will kill you for even thinking about it.

History is the proof, those who want freedom suffer for the wanting. They are killed, butchered and tortured for dareing to dream, because the powers that be, WON'T allow anyone else access to the same power they have. Freedom is ultimate power..the power to live life how you choose..and it is a threat to those who would trample on others for thier own selfish ends.

Saying that the arabs problems are their own and that they must all "bleed" for their freedom is fine if you come from some countries but not if you are from AMERICA.

America does owe and does have responsibilities to the arabs because for the last 50-60 years it has underhandedly dictated how those lands have been shaped due to its own greed and ends. This is a fact and it also applies to other areas such as South America.

Americas interference, support and indeed supply of weapons to murderous tyrants for their own benefit has left to millions of people living without the same freedom they hypocritically champion at home.

I could type so much here but i really cant be arsed, even those who will blast my point of view, know really that it is the truth. My view is not Anti-american it is just Human.

To me america had a oppurtunity to truly make the world a better place because of the power it held but instead it only focused on supplying itself with everything at the cost of most of the rest of the world, in doing so it has shaped the rest of the world to act in its image and so more chaos and devastation is assured.

Instead of recognising their role in F***ing up the world, now to sit back and say the arabs must fend for themselves against tyrants they helped prop up, is disingenuous to say the least. Americas problem is tha they dont seem to understand it is easy to break stuff but much harder to fix it and of course the stuff that you break is not gonna like you, but does that mean you havent got any responsibility to fix it? of course not.

Why can't you see it's wrong?!

Just now I was watching a documentary about a criminal who was trying to escape from prison. He succeeded at first and he has gone a long way. But after a while the police found him and they where standing at his doorstep. He had nowhere to go and instead of fighting his way out he surrendered. And this is what he said;

As bad as I wanted to be free, I wasn't willing to hurt anyone to get it.

If a criminal can see it's wrong, then why can't you? He knows that the only way to get free and to stay free is to carry out his sentence.

I agree as well...

P.S I am Jennifer and I'm looking for a pen pal while I stay in London

if your interested then contact me at: [email protected]

Dragon NL; Your argument isn't relative to freedom, that was a criminal behind bars because he hurt somebody else. You won't live in a free country if you don't fight for it. Invaribly tyrants end up in charge and tell you what to do. If your willing to sacrifice freedom for security you will recieve neither. You can not find a Free country that didn't get there with out historical bloodshed, period.

And if you're for example protesting or whistleblowing in hope of a better future you're not asking for security lol...

I'm not doing either actually. I allready served in the Military so that I can live life how I wish to live it. I can also vote for who I want to vote for, and express whatever opion I have about government in public.

The Syrians right now don't have that right. To protest government there get's you dead..To complain about arresting some one who did nothing wrong gets you killed, to question the big bossman about anything he does publicly get's you killed.

So I guess haveing jackbooted thugs storming into innocent peoples home's and dragging them off somewhere at 3 in the morning is ok with you? You won't defend yourself or your family from violence perpetrated against them because you think it's wrong to do so?

If your true to that ideal no matter what happens, then I admire your persistance, even if I question your reasoning for it. As for me, I will fight if I have too.

Ofcourse it isn't ok for people to break in homes etc. But even if someone literally asks me to hit himself I still won't do it.

What if he wants to hit you?

That won't happen. I know how to avoid trouble.
But anyway, I'll escape. I never fight.

Well, can't argue with that I guess.

That unfortunately goes with the territory, all super power, global powers did that in the past, its called divide and rule and extracting resources and will probably do it in the future. The casualty in blood is just collateral damage. The next ones are China and India and may be all of us including Americans will have to get ready for Chinese and Indian boots kicking us around. All hail the Han and the Hindu.