Should the U.S. forces leave Japan?

[Amnell]

I don't see how political orientations have anything to do with the present discussions -__- .

If we were talking about whether or not US forces should pull out of Iraq, then you could say that was politically polarized. But Tenchu and I, at least, are talking about the country itself. Liberalism and Conservatism has little to do with it. I would even say that Tenchu and I are both a little right of center, politically speaking.

[Suki]

Originally Posted by Joedirt

It is very expensive for the United States to keep its military in Japan. Should the U.S. withdraw its troops and leave Japan? I was stationed in Okinawa back in 1989-1992. We took up a lot of space on the island and most people did not want us there anyway.

Errr wait, did any country you've invaded so far want you there at all? Except for maybe Vietnam... <.< >.>

Sorry to bring this thread back on topic... lol


*cough* Did anyone mention Iraq...?




^______________^ lol

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

I was mainly directing that towards your comment about americans wanting to just test out the weapon on some "yellows". Just because it's the US, doesn't mean you can't discriminate against it.

It's true Japan was basically defeated at the point, however Japan wasn't acting like it in any way. If Japan had surrendered when it should have the bombs wouldn't have been dropped at all. Fact remains dropping those bombs ended the war.

Oh? I didn't mean to offend you by that. I was merely trying to imply the type of mindset America had at the time. I believe the term "yellow" comes straight from McArthurs mouth... not that he should be vilified for it. This sort of racism was normal at the time.

Also, you act as though Japan would've never surrendered. As I said before, if American lives were more important than unconditional surrender then there would've been no need to drop the a-bombs as Japan couldn't have taken much more punishment from continued isolation. The Soviets would've invaded in the end anyway... however that is the LAST thing that the US wanted to happen.

I also think you misunderstand my perception of the dropping of the atomic bombs. To me it's just history. Unlike people such as yourself or Tenchu, I hold no emotional investment in history because it can't be changed, and to dwell on it is futile. The Americans had their own pragmatic reasons for dropping the bomb yes, however to say that the Americans did it because it was "the only option" which was forced upon them and which they carried out reluctantly, is wishful thinking.

[Kiyuge]

Originally Posted by Joedirt

It is very expensive for the United States to keep its military in Japan. Should the U.S. withdraw its troops and leave Japan? I was stationed in Okinawa back in 1989-1992. We took up a lot of space on the island and most people did not want us there anyway.

I think it is too expensive for the United States to maintain a presence in Japan and Korea.

I think that the U.S. Should concentrate on their own country now. The U.S. cant police the world forever. The war between the U.S. and Japan should be over shouldnt it?

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by girlgamer1984

Really? Then how come you asked me for proof when this was in the news every where when the war intensified in Afg?

If it's such common knowledge why is it so hard to post a link from CBC, NBC, BBC, MSNBC, FOX, or another popular news organization?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Oh? I didn't mean to offend you by that. I was merely trying to imply the type of mindset America had at the time. I believe the term "yellow" comes straight from McArthurs mouth... not that he should be vilified for it. This sort of racism was normal at the time.

Also, you act as though Japan would've never surrendered. As I said before, if American lives were more important than unconditional surrender then there would've been no need to drop the a-bombs as Japan couldn't have taken much more punishment from continued isolation. The Soviets would've invaded in the end anyway... however that is the LAST thing that the US wanted to happen.

I also think you misunderstand my perception of the dropping of the atomic bombs. To me it's just history. Unlike people such as yourself or Tenchu, I hold no emotional investment in history because it can't be changed, and to dwell on it is futile. The Americans had their own pragmatic reasons for dropping the bomb yes, however to say that the Americans did it because it was "the only option" which was forced upon them and which they carried out reluctantly, is wishful thinking.

It's no more than history to me. However I wasn't the one who brought it into the argument to begin with. Therefore I'll argue it.

It was a horrible event but it's said and done now, can't be changed.

You didn't "offend" me per say either, however I do feel what you said was slightly discriminatory. Possibly the US government's mindset at the time. However you speak of it like everyone in the population was all for that happening.

In reality US citizens have little to no choice about what the Military does. It's not fair to speak of the US Military's actions like every citizen, or the majority of the population is in agreement with it.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

It's no more than history to me. However I wasn't the one who brought it into the argument to begin with. Therefore I'll argue it.

It was a horrible event but it's said and done now, can't be changed.

You didn't "offend" me per say either, however I do feel what you said was slightly discriminatory. Possibly the US government's mindset at the time. However you speak of it like everyone in the population was all for that happening.

In reality US citizens have little to no choice about what the Military does. It's not fair to speak of the US Military's actions like every citizen, or the majority of the population is in agreement with it.

Well of course I don't think that all Americans think like that nor am I suggesting that American citizens themselves should be held individually responsible for the bombing of Japan. But you have to remember that America AT THE TIME was the kind of country which treated black people as second class citizens. To the degree where German POW's would be held in higher regard than it's black servicemen. It is also well documented that General McArthur was a racist.

I stand by what I said.

[Tyrien]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

[color="DarkGreen"]Because this shit is reported in Arabic or Farsi. Only small parts of what goes on makes it to western news crews.

I still fail to see why you can't post any link of it. Regardless of it's original broadcast was in Arabic/Farsi or not you still shouldn't have a problem finding a news link in a matter of seconds.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Then who the fuck was Eve V talking about? Deluded bitch. I havn't been talking to anyone else on this thread, just tellin em to piss off coz they are not clever...

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I think you should ignore her. She is a narrow minded bitch.

Awwwee... you poor baby :[.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I dont understand. That was pretty straight forward. Is it to much for you to handle so you just swear at me? None of it is theory and it is all pretty simple and true.

Hmmmm...

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Well none of that is true, so that makes you look stupid.

I said Americans were annoying. You take it too far you idot.

You don't understand. You would call me racist if I said every African native was black. Fact and racism are different. Saying Americans share a common personality, as most countries do, and it is due to their localized culture, that is not racist. The fac I dont get along with a specific personality type, that is not racist. The fact Americans mostly have that personality, that is not my problem. So what if I don't wanne spend my time with Americans. Fucking drop it you retard.

No you're just focused so much on the notion that racism is only when you see someone with a different skin colour and at them for it, Tenchu. More so, don't even try and put words in my mouth especially with a half cooked analogy like the one you used.

If you payed any attention at all to what I was saying rather than hearing one word you don't like and making up your mind you'd know that's not what I'm talking about at all.

You assume that all Americans are the exact same in their mindset and view on the world. You claim that all Americans are behind the war. You say all Americans don't care about other's dying by their military. You say that American culture is this, American cities are that. You use all that assumption and "knowledge" to fuel your "dislike" (look mommy, a white people PC word for hate!).

When it comes to looking at US ctizens Tenchu you are a racist, and you are a bigot. You've given more than enough evidence this whole topic. Except for after I explained to you how you're a racist. Now you're trying to be a little more careful with your words even though anyone capable of looking at what bigotry is can see through it.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well of course I don't think that all Americans think like that nor am I suggesting that American citizens themselves should be held individually responsible for the bombing of Japan. But you have to remember that America AT THE TIME was the kind of country which treated black people as second class citizens. To the degree where German POW's would be held in higher regard than it's black servicemen. It is also well documented that General McArthur was a racist.

I stand by what I said.

Fair enough. I'll take back what I said against you.

Sorry though do you mean German POWs (as in Germans caught on the US's side?) or German POW Camps (as in German run camps?). Either way I think you're slightly off in comparing that to the way black slaves were treated before their release in the US.

That's not to say either were acceptable at all. I just think you have the scales tipped in the wrong direction.