Foreigners in japan
 

How do the people generally react to tourists/foriegners in Japan? Ive heard that they dont really like to associate with 'non japanese' people. I dont know if its true, so I figured Id ask here. And I know ofc that some people like tourists and some dont. But I just thought in general; locals, at hotels/restaurant, clubs etc.
Hoping for some good replies : )

Don't be surprised if this thread gets merged with another as this topic has come up before.

I would say in general I disagree with the notion that Japanese don't like to associate with foreigners. Of course there is a certain percentage of the population that don't but there are easily and equal number that have no problem with interacting with foreigners.

You won't likely find those that don't like foreigners in positions where they would have to. If this is something you are worried about, I would say "You have nothing to worry about."

Some Japanese dislike foreigners just like some foreigners dislike Japanese. I found most to be very friendly though.
I would just caution foreigners about working for Japanese companies. They expect you to act like a Japanese worker even though you aren't.:mad:

I lived in Sapporo, Hokkaido, and I didn't have any issues with racism at all. Everyone seemed pretty nice.

I think the more accurate way to say it would be that "A lot of Japanese don`t like associating outside of the language they`re comfortable in - Japanese."

The majority of foreigners in Japan are tourists and cannot speak Japanese. Even most of those who aren`t tourists are short timers (1 year English teachers) and they also usually can`t speak much if any Japanese. So experience tells the average Japanese person that if they approach and start speaking to someone who looks like they aren`t Japanese - foreign language communication awaits. So unless they have some strong interest in improving a language they`re studying (99% of the time English), they`re not going to put themselves into that sort of stressful situation.

Once it was clear that I could speak Japanese fluently, I never had any problems associating with people or getting them to associate with me.

its not a matter of race, its a matter of how the person acts.

If a white male for example goes to japan and acts like a totally dick shouting gaijin smash and acting like hes gods gift to japanese women.

then yea not many people are gonna take to kindly to ya.

not saying EVERY one acts like that, it was just an example, so relax.

just know when you visit another country you represent the country you come from and you should act properly.

main reason why some japanese maybe "unkind to foreigners" is that SOME people dont bother to learn the customs or etiquette of japan, and consider them to be rude.


lets just toss up a random crazy scenario.

say i am from Country A

and you are from country B

I come to country B into your area and start throwing up peace signs and speaking loudly and taking pictures of every thing.

lets say in country B
the peace sign is the symbol for F' You
and speaking loudly in public is considered rude
and taking pictures of people is considered rude with out their permission.

You would associate all people from Country A are rude and generally be unkind to them.

see what i mean?

it really boils down to person.

im not sayin there is NO racism in Japan.


but Generally every one is very kind and polite.
and you have nothing to worry about, as long as you act accordingly

Agreed. Pretty well said. It's not really the fact that Japanese people don't like foreigners, it's simply the communication barrier that they don't like.


(to sum up his post in one sentence ^ )

これでも女なのだが？ :mtongue:

I agree, I don't think it's only Japan that acts this way. Some people visit a country without researching it's culture, and get pissed when people are looking at them funny.

Nyororin you're right. Communication is the key, but some people are so ignorant that they assume the whole world speaks English, i've had people accuse Germans of being racist because they couldn't understand English, only they made up silly excuses like "They understand English, but don't want to respond". What a joke.

My best advice is, don't listen to what people have to say. Go and visit the place and have your own experience.

Well, thats what he is doing, researching :)

I agree with everyone. I've experienced both sides: Those who welcome me, and those who rejects me.

First, there are WAY more Japanese who welcome a foreigner than those who will reject it, at least in most "tourist centric" area, that is definitely the case.

Secondly, to the side that rejects me, well, they reject me not because they don't like me, the rejection came mostly from the assumptions (their assumption) that they won't be able to communicate with me.

Of course there will also be the case with random Yakuza who carried the great samurai spirit from the Edo time frame who believe in driving out the foreigners, but thats just a niche percentage

Housetek made a good point, when you enter someone's country, as long as you act respectful and stick to activities that is socially acceptable locally, you should be fine. Just don't do anything that will give reasons for people to hate you. One example, will be the incident at Tsukiji, they now banned tourist from entering Tsukiji, thanks to a few individual who decide to act like an idiot: Tokyo fish market bars tourists | World news | The Guardian

So, as long as you don't do anything outrageous to give people a reason to hate you, you should be fine

This is a quote
 

"The police do pay some special attention to foreigners, however; because of Japanese stereotypes that foreigners are more likely to be criminals, foreign residents get stopped on the streets a lot more--especially if you are a foreigner who rides a bicycle, and thus look like you stole it. When the police stop you, on foot or on bike, they will ask to see your Alien Registration Card ("Gaikokujin Toroku-sho"), popularly called a "gaijin card" by those required to carry it. This used to be a small booklet with a dozen or more pages, but has been cut down to the size of a driver's license. If the police stop you and you cannot produce your card, they will probably take you to the police station where you must fill out explanation and apology forms. Someone must then bring the card to the station before they will release you. "

Firas
 

hi im sure of this information
i met many Japanese friends
they love Foreigners so much specially girls and if you can speak theyr language they will love you more than a Japanese person

and they like Kawaii people!!!!!:mtongue:

I have yet to have any run-ins with police. They`ve never looked twice in my direction. In fact, the only time I`ve ever even talked with an officer was when I witnessed a car accident and was making a statement.

It is required by law that you carry your registration card or passport at all times. Detaining you for that is entirely reasonable, as there is really no reason you shouldn`t be carrying it.

With bicycles, they check the registration (all are registered when they`re purchased) to see if it`s been reported stolen. Unfortunately, there ARE a lot of stolen bicycles making the rounds in the foreign community simply because people don`t realize that they keep records of them so never worry about it when they receive one from a friend... who received it from a friend of a friend... who somewhere along the line stole it. Just like you wouldn`t just accept a car without checking the registration - a bike is the same.

As for foreign crime - I`ll say this. The percentage of crime (minus visa violations) committed by foreigners far exceeds the percentage of foreigners who make up the population. Is it the majority of crime? Certainly not. But it still is not a good thing and should not be ignored. If 5% of the population is committing 20% of the crime....

wow the episode about receiving stolen bikes from a friend actually happened to me, and i was arrested for it after using the bike for a couple of weeks. i was 17/18 years old at that time, so they brought me to the juvenile department of the nerima-ku central police station to be questioned by 6 police officers (暇人).

they do let me go with a warning, but they don't forget to take my photos, fingerprints and all. but the thing is, even the police is very polite!

i can't really complain much though because i'm the one who lack the knowledge about bike licenses.

Just continuing
 

"Japan is renowned for being a virtually crime-free country, and usually Japanese police get the credit. This does not exactly reflect reality. It is true Japan is very safe, and you can walk the streets at night feeling pretty secure, but there is more crime in Japan than the statistics tell, and the police are not always very effective in pursuing it. Japan's incredibly high arrest and conviction rates do not just reflect efficient criminal justice, but also effective interrogation techniques, a high number of confessions, some forced, and a judicial system (no juries) which tends to consider a suspect guilty on little more than the recommendation of the prosecutor.

This is not to say that Japan's judicial system has run amok, crime is everywhere and innocents are always sent to jail, far from it. However, many crimes go unreported, especially sexual crimes, or crimes where there is little chance of catching the perpetrator. The Yakuza tend to go relatively unhindered by Japanese police, especially where "victimless" crimes are concerned. Gambling and prostitution, although illegal, are practiced very visibly; police will sometimes make token raids, usually with a politician somewhere nearby mugging for the media, which is always alerted for these events.

Also, police have much more freedom than their western counterparts in making arrests and interrogations. For example, the police may hold someone on suspicion, without filing an actual charge, and keep that person incommunicado for more than three weeks while they are questioned. I have never met anyone who this was done to, however; you don't really have to worry too much about it happening to you.

The police do pay some special attention to foreigners, however; because of Japanese stereotypes that foreigners are more likely to be criminals, foreign residents get stopped on the streets a lot more--especially if you are a foreigner who rides a bicycle, and thus look like you stole it. When the police stop you, on foot or on bike, they will ask to see your Alien Registration Card ("Gaikokujin Toroku-sho"), popularly called a "gaijin card" by those required to carry it. This used to be a small booklet with a dozen or more pages, but has been cut down to the size of a driver's license. If the police stop you and you cannot produce your card, they will probably take you to the police station where you must fill out explanation and apology forms. Someone must then bring the card to the station before they will release you. "

This is true. I was the only Gaijin living in my neighborhood and was stopped all the time and asked for my Gaijin card. Also, my apartment was searched a couple of times while I was at work. I still don't know what for. When I complained, my employer told me I had no right to complain since they paid the rent. I also had police officers stationed outside my apartment for several months (I didn't mind the cute and friendly policewoman though:D ). The only thing I could figure is that some crime was happening and being the only foreigner in the area they were looking at me. Of course I didn't do anything. They were always polite and American police usually aren't so nice, so I really don't hold a grudge against them.

Hito-no-kokoro-no-ura-o-yome
 

"Internationalization of Japanese corporations often means building more plants overseas or training employees in foreign languages and sending them overseas, contributing to the companies increased profit and prestige overseas; rarely does it mean hiring more non-Japanese employees ("blue eyed" outside directors) or foreign lawyers. The more they talk about "internationalization" (kokusaika) in tatemae, the harder they will have to try to keep under their hat their honne (nationalization).
Frustratingly, the national slogan of "Lets internationalize ourselves" can be situational because there has been no clash of arguments in Japan over either national or international principles. One tends to suspect that internationalization (tatemae) is another name for nationalism (honne) in view of the fact that "internationalization" has mostly been discussed in the context of the methods of the advancement of the international status or influence of Japan and the promotion of its national interest"
"The maintenance of the Japanese "wa" (intragroup harmony or interpersonal harmony) calls for hara, because the WA exists not only among those who admire one another but among those who hate one another too. To play the every-one-must-be-happy game, every player must abide by the rules of the game of the ceremony. The unwritten rules of the ceremony game include:
- Respect authority and tradition
- Be quiet
- Have Hara.
To synthesize the conflicts of interests or of personality, the ceremony must not be efficient but effective. The cozier the place is, the more the chances are for the performers to confirm each others Honne.

"However, what is stipulated in the law is not necessarily what is actually practiced. In Japan, we often hear people say "Yes, thats what the law says in tatemae. But thats not the way it is (Genjitsu wa chigau) in sharp contrast to the statement Americans make "I am sorry but thats the law."

An often used remark, "Hito-no-kokoro-no-ura-o-yome" (read the rear of anothers mind) doesnt necessarily mean that one should be suspicious of the motives or integrity of others; it often means that one should be sensitive and caring enough to read into their unspoken desires or willingness to help.

The immediate reaction on the part of the Americans might be, "uh huh, we have public self and private self." These are two sides of a coin, rarely reversing themselves, whereas Honne and Tatemae, being part of the periphery of a coin, can readily overlap and reverse themselves.

The Japanese mind, like traditional Japanese houses that have an "engawa" (verandah) serving as "ma" between the living rooms and the garden, has no clear demarcation line between "inside" Honne and "outside" Tatemae. A situational use of Honne for insiders (uchiwa) and tatemae for outsiders (sotomono), although it may occasionally appear outrageous to Westerners, is a commonly accepted practice in Japan.

Foreigners are treated politely with only Tatemae (outer truth) as "gaijin" (outsiders), and are rarely told the honne (inner truth), to their frustration."


"The Unspoken Way "Michihiro Matsumoto

ahhhhh!!!! すみません :o

You can stop quoting from that book - things have changed quite a lot since the early 80s when it was written.

I`m tempted to delete the quotes, as there is really no point to them - not to mention I imagine they`re copyrighted.

Nyororin
 

As long as it is quoted with the source, it is not a problem.

I think the purpose of this Japanese forum is the understanding of Japanese culture. Everything is an open contribution to understanding the culture.

These are Japanese culture classics that you would have to study in any Asian Studies programme in the world. These are perennial (timeless)concepts.

Tatemae / Honne concept is very essential to understand Japanese culture as any expert in the subject will confirm.

I am in graduate school and I am studying a Master in Asian studies plus my two years girlfriend is from Japan.

I am sorry challenging your status quo but I was trying to contribute constructively to this subject.

Nyorori
 

Western people dont think like Freud (Father of Psychoanalysis) but Freud is important to understand western psychology.

I would much rather read your words than long quotes you copy and pasted.

I don`t mind contribution. But I do mind that *you* are not the one doing the contribution - you`re simply mindlessly quoting passages.
Tatemae / honne is important - but not NEARLY as important as the western media and publications try to push it as. Seriously, it`s a concept present in ANY culture. Take away the fancy terminology - "Sometimes saying the truth would make things more complicated, so I`ll just go along with the flow until things look like they`d go in my favor. I sure hope someone picks up on the clues I drop so that will happen sooner." Not such a foreign or hard to comprehend concept now, is it?

It`s truly no different than dealing with someone you don`t like, while hoping they (or someone else around with the power to "rescue" you) will pick up the hint. Or accepting the food you don`t like, while staring longingly at the one you do. Elevating it with pretty names and presenting it as this mysterious foreign concept does no one any favors. Especially when you`re quoting from a text in regard to business that is 20 some years out of date.

And if you want to push and put up qualifications... *sigh* -
I`ve lived in Japan 10 years, married to a Japanese guy for 8 of them, have a degree in linguistics (language acquisition) and a degree in cultural studies. Both received in Japan at a Japanese university. Also, JLPT 1.

But I really don`t see how that has anything to do with pointing out that information pertaining to business dealings from a 20 some year old book isn`t really valid at the moment.

Mmm
 

Before we run, we must learn to walk.

Basic concepts first. Dont assume that everybody knows about Japan here. There are first timers that read these posts out of curiosity. People from other countries.

We are learning together about Japan. Thats all it matters.

We are exchanging thoughts...are we on this together?

Freedom to think is essential element in learning process.

You can kick my Hara but I will stand for my thoughts.

Nyorori
 

Not everybody thinks like you. You must respect other people thoughts.

What I said might be useless to you but for another person might mean a spark of curiosity and genuine interest in Japanese culture.

Respect is very important.

As long as I respect everybody, I can speak up my mind.

This is exactly why I am saying that you shouldn`t be quoting 20 some year old books, which are not "basics" nor all that valid at this point in time.

If you want to continue to say they are, then I should be able to pull out some book from the early 80s about business practices in some other country and say it is valid. We all know that it`s most likely not.

I will go no further on this, but if you want to post "your thoughts" - post your thoughts. Not quote after quote with no original contribution.

Nyorori
 

Very simply put...


Take a dictionary and define "Forum" and pay attention to the origin of that work in ancient history.

Do it

Great Disscusion Housetek, good scenerio!

Interesting words being spoken in here and I had wanted to post for a good while but Nyororin and Niknaizorai were rather much engaged in their discussion but it seems to have been settled now.

I would say this type discussion is quite tricky and honestly one of the most useful tips i can give is do not have a chip on your shoulder. Most would do good to remember that when you are in Japan YOU ARE IN JAPAN which means follow the rules even if they inconvenience because in the end its easier on you. So you get stopped by 3 different police officers who all ask for your passport or your alien registration card its not going to hurt you to take out and if you are caught without it then whose fault is it?

Profiling happens everyday in many different countries a Japanese police officer stopping you because you are a foreigner is no different than say a white cop pulling over a driver in the US because hes black or Latino or an Arab. I deal with foreigners everyday at my job and i will admit sometimes its gets a little frustrating and i will admit majority of the frustrating ones are Asian some Korean some Chinese some Japanese and some have a very large chip on their shoulder for not being citizens. My language partner is from Osaka and she is loving it here because of all the different type of people she gets to meet. She says should never get to meet this many different type of people in Japan she has not experienced any type of racism since she has been here except for the occasional why cant Asians drive comment but she laughs that off now.

I have been subjected to stares on trips to Japan because i was a foreigner and i completely ignored it because i knew they were not looking at me because they hated me (at least I hope not) but because i was different because i was foreigner. I have only been stopped once by the police and its was very routine Americans are use to seeing different races and creeds of people everyday its the norm and one of the things i love about this country. The percentage of foreigners in Japan is small some people could go years without seeing a foreigner in real life. But i am always puzzled when i get asked do Americans hate the Japanese. I mean thats a hard one to get to the meat about.

Show respect and learn the language this will make things easier on you if someone does happen to approach you. Its not always about race its about how you present yourself. If your going to be an ass then dont expect a Japanese person to associate with you or show you the time of day. If someone has had a bad experience in Japan then that sucks many foreigners have had a terrible time when visiting the US. I wish there would be a day where discussion like this wouldn't be nesscary for any country but we dont live in such a world where someone is judged on their actions only.

Do some studying and learn what you can do to make things easier on yourself in Japan you are going to stand out there is nothing you can do about that but you can at least be prepared just encase an incident does occur.

Seconded. Reading a person's post that quotes wholesale from a book is like a shirt box covered in icing. It may look like a cake, but it really isn't.

Exercise for you: Look up "ignore" in the same dictionary. Do it. *I* am.

Koir
 

To state an opinion is easy. To backup your opinion with research is another thing. That takes time.

Most importantly, it is not what you say but your attitude and how you make your point in discussion.

He explains the art of Hara because he considers that important for the West to understand Japan, because in "haragei" one finds a key operating principle to be followed by anyone who wishes to be a sucessful communicator in Japan.

Just in case you dont know, he passed a very rigourous exam given by the US Embassy in Tokyo for Japanese simultaneous translators. He was born in 1940 and he researched intercultural communication problems in depth.

These are extremely basic concepts to understand if you want to really, sincerely, venture into Japanese way of communicating.

Some researchers have devoted a lot of time to think and research about these issues and I would not advise you to challenge them blindly. You fooling no one and you are not doing yourself any good.

This people provide very essential insights into the Japanese culture.

I quoted (" ")him and I stated the source of this information to backup my opinions.

I was laying out a framework for a constructive discussion.

Forum was a place where in ancient Roma people used to exercise open discussion.

By the way, I didnt join the forum to play ping pong.

There is no need for this discussion to continue as it is. This thread is about foreigners in Japan, not chest-thumping. Let's get back on topic.

I haven't read any of the other posts, so I pre-apologize if I copied someone else's answer...


But from what I've gathered, Japanese people tend to keep their space from everyone-- especially foreigners. It's a really a matter of 'comfort zones', not a dislike for people, that keep them from openly interacting...

Though I would have random people come up and do 'drive-by' photos with me, all the while asking me if I was American-- with the biggest chiizus on their faces!

And I also had little old ladies scoot away and prude up when I came around-- but I've also had little old ladies sit next to me and fan me off on park benches!

In general, I think they react pretty well to foreigners-- it's near celebrity status... Unless you're a creep, and/or ugly. :vsign:

I know there's the difference between being Japanese and working vs. working at a Japanese job, but isn't it the same in any country you go to? If a foreigner comes to America, an employer will treat them like every other American employee. Makes sense that the Japanese would think along the same lines.

Though I can agree with your point, work ethic can be a big culture shock to foreigners if they're not prepared for it.

Chest-thumping?

Talking about "respect" and defining "forum" and other unneeded remarks when one's opinions aren't agreed to.

I think American companies are more respectful to foreigners because there are laws against discrimination that are enforced. Plus, we are more accustomed to foreigners since our country is made up from foreigners.
You can't expect foreigners to know all your customs and if you wanted them to you should assign someone to teach them. Also, I am in the habit of listening to anyone who has more knowledge and experience no matter if they are a foreigner or not. The Japanese never listened to us because we were foreigners (this is not just my opinion but I was told this point blank by a Japanese co worker who understood these things). I was never called "sensei" by my students (no, I wasn't teaching English but a technical science) although when my first year students started assisting the new students they were addressed by this.
I guess it all comes down to respect. While a few Japanese there respected us, most (including our bosses) didn't. I later found out that Japanese companies are well know for getting what information they need from foreigners and then getting rid of you. They tried everything in the book to try to get us to quit our contracts, but when they figured out we wouldn't quit they ended up buying out our contracts (at a big profit to us) and sending us home. I am happy to say that after we left complaints went up, demand for the services went down and the program was shut down.
I don't hate Japan or Japanese, just the way the companies treat all of their workers. Most Japanese workers feel the same way but they are stuck there. To understand my feelings you would need to work there.

That's horrible. But it is good to know that their actions had negative consequences, which just may convince them to change their policies to retain useful employees regardless of divergent origins.

That is my thinking too. I wouldn't care about race, sexual orientation, or any other difference if I was the boss and was making money while keeping my customers happy with the service.
I guess to say I was happy they failed would be wrong because my American employees and I worked very hard for several years to set things up. We were never allowed to be late or sick for work (Japanese were able to) and I am proud that we never were. I am happy that they were able to see that our experience was still needed and that their thinking was wrong. But it is too late for them now.

Wooow! I went to Tsukiji late may in 2008, i remember them saying now Flash when taking pictures, but now tourist and onlookers are banned!? I'm even more happy i was implored to go to Tsukiji by a Japanese girl who was staying at my hostel. Time to edit and upload these vids to you-tube.

Back Story--
She asked me if i wanted to go to "the fish market" with her and her friends at like 5am by this time it was already 2:30 after i night out in Shinjuku.. I respectfully declined because i hadn't slept since landed in Japan some 3 days earlier, and was uninterested in seeing fish at "the fish market"

Her: You must must go, many tourist love the fish market its very famous event, even for Japanese!

Me: Ya Ive heard about it, but, right now its just not on my list of things to
do... But thank you so much for inviting me, i really appreciate it.

Her: Onyx, you must come with us, i would really like you to come. I want you to see and it would make me happy (^_^)

Me:... Ok, you convinced me:D What time should we leave to get there?

Her: We are going to leave in 30 minutes to ride our bikes there.

Me: Bikes?? Ya.. I think im gonna stay here, i really don't feel like bike riding right now, i might just pass out lol. But Again, thanks for inviting me, you guys go and have fun:)

Her::( .. (consults with her friends for about 10 seconds in Japanese) Ok, you can still come with us, we will take a cab so you can join us:D

Me::eek: No way, i cant let you do that, i don't want you to change your plans just for me. I really appreciate your kindness but please, i would feel guilty if..

Her: No! I want you to come, it would make me very happy and i think you will like it. It ok don't worry ^_^

Me: Ok you win C-san, im come with you guys..:rheart:
Her::D

So, to the original poster, the Japanese can most hospitable, to the point of confusion lol. This particular person was EXTREMELY helpful to me on many many more occasions than the one just cited. And sometimes, while i was looking at the subway maps trying to figure out what ticket to buy, people would come up to me and try in their best english to ask if they could be of assistance. I always smiled and said thank you so much.

Once, i was o lost coming back from Shibuya my first time, i asked this young lady in my broken Japanese witch way is the "Oedo" line to Kurame?.. She pointed and said a 2 to 3 sentence phrase of witch all i could understand was "that way , down, left under left, next to" I must have had the most confused looking facial expression as i said thank you and began to walk in the direction she pointed me.. Then she said " chotto mate" and walked me 5 minutes out of her way to where i needed to go..

So, ya 98% of my experience with Japanese people in Japan were extremely positive. Just be respectful,nice and courteous and you should receive the same treatment multiplied exponentially.

Edit: sorry for my lil book.