Going to Japan 2012

[Craghack]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

I have never heard about these cities before. Very Informative!

I found out that Ramsar, Iran has the highest known year-average human exposure levels measured in an inhabited location.





Natural Radiation: High Background Radiation Areas (HBRAs) of Ramsar, Iran

- Thank you Bobby. You opened a bigger picture for me when it comes to looking at radiation and how much we live with everyday. Excellent Map which clearly shows this.

Just a quick question: The numbers next to the countries both in brackets and without are measured in micro SV or milli?

[Craghack]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

There is no way to avoid all radiation exposure - the human body actually produces radiation... But I get your point.

I think that you have misunderstood the 1/100 figure though. 1 in a hundred is the number of people who have an actual increased risk of cancer - not the number who actually develop cancer... And certainly not the number who become terminally ill.

To be more exact, a single exposure of 100mSv has been shown to raise cancer risk around 0.5~1%. Long term exposure to lower amounts is a completely different matter and is almost impossible to measure. 100mSv over a YEAR is pretty much nothing. There is a fairly large city in Brazil (Guarapari) where the natural background radiation is almost 200mSv a year, and there has been no noticeable difference in cancer rates compared to everyone else. And people live their entire lives there with no decreases in radiation over the entire time.

So, basically, 100mSv a year for those living in Fukushima has such a tiny level of risk that it is impossible to calculate.

It is when you have a single large dose that things start to change and you begin to have an increased risk of developing cancer. A person`s lifetime risk of developing cancer is influenced by a number of things - for example, smoking raises your lifetime risk of developing cancer by anywhere between 2 and 15% (depends on how long and how much you smoke, etc). Drinking raises your risk of developing cancer by so many percent. Regular tanning by so many percent. So on and so on.
This *doesn`t* mean that you will die from cancer - it doesn`t even mean that you will develop cancer at all. It just means that on average, that many more people develop cancer than a group that didn`t do those things.

So... In the case of 1000 people receiving a dose of 100mSv - one extra person might develop some type of cancer as a result. Chances are, it will be thyroid cancer - one of the easiest to treat cancers with an excellent prognosis. In the case of 100,000, you may have one extra case of a more dangerous type of cancer... Out of 2,000,000, think more like 20 extra people with a terminal illness - not 20,000.

Either way though, it`s a moot point in the case of Fukushima as it is 100mSv in a single dose, not spread over a year.

- Nyororin, thanks so much for sharing that information. I found it extremly helpful! I need as much as I can to help me make the right descision.

[JBaymore]

Originally Posted by Craghack

- Just a quick question: The numbers next to the countries both in brackets and without are measured in micro SV or milli?

Milli........ which is the lower case "m". Micro is indicated with a character that is the lower case Greek mu....... "μ".

best,

................john

[acjama]

Agreed. Very eloquently spoken. Then I too shall (endeavor to) speak softly.

I do believe we are in a slightly different wavelength. I'm not on the "cleanup crew". I'm mostly on "prevention", and also "hate to say I told you so but why the hell didn't you listen when things were still preventable?!?" for the kicks. Maybe a tad childish, but I feel learning is mandatory - if not with love and respect, then with pain and humiliation. It's everybody's personal choice.

Fukushima was completely man-made accident. Those responsible for not letting this happen again (yes, AGAIN) did not do their jobs. Accident was not "souteigai", or "unimaginable" as Tepco put it. Their responsibilities were few and light (I would know), and still they failed. This is beyond pathetic, it is criminal.

I encourage freedom for extreme protection, because it is not only human, it also gives focus to the above mentioned fact, and reaction may help prevent further occurrence. Maybe those things read statistics, without any concept of the underlying simplifications, such as the elevated radiation would be conveniently evenly spread across the prefecture and not in the food chain, as is NOT the reality. Some places are quite normal, whereas others are radiation hot spots capable of creating quite measurable damage. There is no mechanism, no rule to prevent these hot spots being in i.e. school grounds or cattle feeding grounds (nope, did not take those examples out of thin air, as everyone reading newspapers know).

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The question now isn`t "should we let there be lots of radiation?" but rather "what is best for the people who live in areas that have experienced contamination?"

Falling into self-righteouss bliss in the cover of statistics and do nothing? I think not. Statistics are not designed to help victims. Explaining paths how radiation gets into one's system helps victims. If they decide it's time to go or time to buy imported food, then letting that happen is the way to help.

No, I have no radiation victims (nor statistics victims) close, and I intend to keep it so. And yes, you used propaganda technique called Appeal to Authority. I consent it may have been accidental.

[siokan]

Originally Posted by acjama

I do have extreme opinions about how to handle radioactive exposure above the background level. I earned them with relevant academic grades AND experience as someone in charge of factory's radiation safety.

oh specialist!!!
Isn't there recommended thesis that has gone out to the thesis data base etc. because the newspaper article has gotten tired?

[acjama]

Originally Posted by siokan

Isn't there recommended thesis that has gone out to the thesis data base etc.

Unfortunately I have no papers to recommend, as the practical side is not scientific in nature, but technical (or procedural) and the ones I used were not in English. Tech papers are generally localized in manuals, not so much widely distributed. You might find some with search words "radioactive fallout". But you must not make assumptions on scale, instead read many articles and just look for the common points.

If you track the path of the radioactive particle from the source with weather models, you quickly realize that dust is bad. Direct radiation is not a problem unless you're near, and even then you'd probably know it from all the wreckage and warning signs (and rude men yelling incoherently in space costumes and pushing you away). After that it's just a question of keeping very clean, which I already said, is a good advice anyway. Local water supplies usually get contaminated via rainfall (like the Tokyo 23区+5市 contamination), so that won't creep up on you if you can track the air currents. Food producers who lie about the origin of the food is another problem.

[siokan]

Information that I want it

*Influence on human body by external radiation exposure
(Late-phase response & Data of person who is actually exposed to radiation)

*Data when internal is exposed to radiation
(Emission rate to passage of time & residual quantity)

A lot of scholars are sending information by "Blog" and "twitter." now.
(The scholar from whom the capital is assisted to the mass communication and the power company disregards we Japanese.)
The scholar who is selling a negligent thesis for news also excludes it.

I want further data a little more because it has gotten tired of the check on the resource. ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡

[acjama]

Originally Posted by siokan

I want further data a little more because it has gotten tired of the check on the resource. ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡

I feel your pain, bro'. I'm sorry to say the only shortcut I've encountered that says "douzo" to your questions is an iPhone application called "Japan Crisis HD Free". There are lots of apps popping out in App Store with the search word "radiation", but iThingie is required for all of those. Anybody know any emulators? Anyway, this might be a good excuse to get iHooked.

The app describes radiation poisoning symptoms in detail, and does not overdo the remedies and treatment (i.e. basically says "go see a doctor"), but by reading you get the idea that there is medicine, so all is not lost if you get some symptoms. Didn't find it mentioned in the app, but common sense says you might get the same symptoms without radiation poisoning, too...