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-   -   Why do many japanese want to have white skin? (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-fashion/14839-why-do-many-japanese-want-have-white-skin.html)

mercedesjin 06-17-2009 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 734626)
See.. now you're just being paranoid and irrational.

I notice you haven't even addressed the point I've made.

But I'll address yours

-Yes I have studied race relations. I don't think there's a high school student who hasn't studied race relations in New Zealand.
-Your comment on the subtlety of racism is valid... but you have to be able to connect racism to the phenomena in question. YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO SO. The only thing you've been able to do is suggest a connection. But please... back yourself up or don't comment at all. I mean I'm aware of the subtle forms racism can take... but unless you can make such connections then you just sound like a raving lunatic who blames racism for everything.
-I too assume that Japan is aware of the black community in the United States, how it came about, and the at times uneasy relationship between ethnic groups in various places. Again you haven't made any connection between portrayal of black people in the Japanese media and their perceptions of beauty. Just implied that one exists.
-MMM dealt with your final point with the carrots/apples analogy. (Not that he hasn't dealt with the other points you made... I just prefer to counter differently)

Bottom line is that we're willing to listen to you if you can give us a good reason to. But at the moment your explanation simply doesn't wash.

I'm not qualified to say this but I do remember a thread on here in which it was revealed (by a respected forum member who has intimate knowledge of Japan) that Japanese people tend to not even compare themselves with those of other races when it comes to beauty.
Okay, sorry it's taken a while to reply. I was getting a little too upset. As you can see, this is an important issue to me.

When it comes to making comments and backing them up, I'm working from personal experience, and I think I've said it before. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear, and I'm sorry if that's not valid enough for this forum. (Though I will say, personal experiences are what bring about issues of race relations and theories.)

Sorry, I didn't read MMM's post. Maybe when I don't feel as uncomfortable/upset, I'll check it out.

MMM 06-17-2009 06:00 AM
If a thread on an Internet forum makes you this upset, Mercedesjin, you might want to reconsider moving to Japan for any length of time.

mercedesjin 06-17-2009 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM (Post 734953)
If a thread on an Internet forum makes you this upset, Mercedesjin, you might want to reconsider moving to Japan for any length of time.
Nah, that's all right. See, I'm going with the right group of people. People who I know won't mock me for feeling uncomfortable because of discussions on racism on a forum with strangers where I am, as far as I can tell, the only person of color attempting to defend my opinions. People who, even if they disagree with me, will support me and anyone else who happens to be different, or feel upset because of racism.

I'm not embarrassed to say that I, on a forum on the Internet, feel upset because of racism. I'm sorry that you seem to think I should.

Barone1551 06-17-2009 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 734960)
Nah, that's all right. See, I'm going with the right group of people. People who I know won't mock me for feeling uncomfortable because of discussions on racism on a forum with strangers where I am, as far as I can tell, the only person of color attempting to defend my opinions. People who, even if they disagree with me, will support me and anyone else who happens to be different, or feel upset because of racism.

I'm not embarrassed to say that I, on a forum on the Internet, feel upset because of racism. I'm sorry that you seem to think I should.
Where in his post did he ever say you were embarrassed about anything. He just simply stated (or at least that's how i took it) that if things are getting you so worked up, on a website with people you don't even know. Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't go to a country you seem to have so much distaste towards. Because while you may be going with a group, you are sure to interact with some Japanese people. And if you plan on not interacting with the Japanese people....whats the point of going.

mercedesjin 06-17-2009 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone1551 (Post 734967)
Where in his post did he ever say you were embarrassed about anything. He just simply stated (or at least that's how i took it) that if things are getting you so worked up, on a website with people you don't even know. Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't go to a country you seem to have so much distaste towards. Because while you may be going with a group, you are sure to interact with some Japanese people. And if you plan on not interacting with the Japanese people....whats the point of going.
The sarcastic tone implied that for me, personally - and the implication that it's a negative thing for me to be upset.

I don't think that all Japanese people are racist. At least, I hope not. I do think that racism can be found where ever I go, though, and I sure as hell plan on doing or saying something about it where ever I go. Which is partially why I want to travel so much. I want to give fair representation of black women to different parts of the world. That's all.

MMM 06-17-2009 06:44 AM
I have been nothing but forthcoming and have never been sarcastic on any of my posts in this thread.

I am serious. If you get this upset on the Internet, I would reconsider moving to Japan. Maybe you forgot the story I told you last week about the girl I knew in Japan who literally lost touch with reality and her mother had to come to Japan to pick her up and take her home.

And I'll be frank, you have been saying things, but you haven't responded much to what people are saying. You even quit reading a post of mine because you didn't like a comment I said. I am looking forward to your responses to some of the posts that have come up since you last came on.

MMM 06-17-2009 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 734946)
Sorry, I didn't read MMM's post. Maybe when I don't feel as uncomfortable/upset, I'll check it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 734960)
I'm not embarrassed to say that I, on a forum on the Internet, feel upset because of racism. I'm sorry that you seem to think I should.
This is the kind of baiting I do not like. I am of the mind that if something upsets you or makes you uncomfortable, that is a bad thing.

Either you are calling me a racist, which I already asked you not to do, or you are contradicting yourself, or both.

If I am a racist, then everyone in the world is racist. I look forward to your response.

mercedesjin 06-17-2009 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM (Post 734973)
I have been nothing but forthcoming and have never been sarcastic on any of my posts in this thread.

I am serious. If you get this upset on the Internet, I would reconsider moving to Japan. Maybe you forgot the story I told you last week about the girl I knew in Japan who literally lost touch with reality and her mother had to come to Japan to pick her up and take her home.

And I'll be frank, you have been saying things, but you haven't responded much to what people are saying. You even quit reading a post of mine because you didn't like a comment I said. I am looking forward to your responses to some of the posts that have come up since you last came on.
I get this upset on the Internet when it comes to racism, homophobia, and sexism. It's even worst in real life.

I quit reading a post of yours because - like I said - I got upset, and thought it wasn't worth continuing that particular discussion since it really is just a forum. It gets emotionally tiring, emotionally straining after a while to talk to people about my race, gender, etc. - to argue with people about my race, gender, etc. That's why I'm not responding. Even now, I feel uncomfortable having to defend myself, even though it's just a thread. I'm assuming you're white and male, else you might be able to understand and relate to that.

I've also said before that I want to go to Japan to spread fair representation, as well as any other country I go to. That I get upset is just a way of showing that I'm passionate about this issue.

MMM 06-17-2009 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 734979)
I get this upset on the Internet when it comes to racism, homophobia, and sexism. It's even worst in real life.

I quit reading a post of yours because - like I said - I got upset, and thought it wasn't worth continuing that particular discussion since it really is just a forum. It gets emotionally tiring, emotionally straining after a while to talk to people about my race, gender, etc. - to argue with people about my race, gender, etc. That's why I'm not responding. Even now, I feel uncomfortable having to defend myself, even though it's just a thread. I'm assuming you're white and male, else you might be able to understand and relate to that.

I've also said before that I want to go to Japan to spread fair representation, as well as any other country I go to. That I get upset is just a way of showing that I'm passionate about this issue.
We are talking about Japan and skin tone. Why does that have to be about you and your skin tone and me and my skin tone? We are not arguing about your race or your gender. You are not being asked to defend who you are, just the arguments you make. There is a separation there.

I have never regulated someones ability to discuss a topic on these forums by what their race and gender were (unless it was something that was a question to a Japanese native, but even then there are people non-Japanese qualified to answer many questions).

You quit reading that post of mine, and in my opinion that was an error on your part. I responded to all of your points up to that time in that post.

girigiri 06-17-2009 07:52 AM
50% of crime is committed by a certain sub group of society: if that is a factual statement it is by no means racist. Maybe that sub-group in fact comprises 90% of the society referred to. If that sub-group comprises only 20% or so of the society, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

A person you have never met must be racist because he has (insert colour of your choice here) skin. All people of that colour are racists.
Is this a racist comment?

Does a large proportion of the Japanese population consider fair skin to be more attractive than dark? Sure - what of it? If you can't tell the difference between aesthetics and racism, that's a problem you are inflicting on others.

I have too often seen people behave in an offensive fashion toward others, and scream "racist, sexist, homophobe et al" when their victims rise to the bait, to be influenced by random accusations of racism. (or sexism, or homophobia, or ....)


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