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serious trouble learning kanji -
02-07-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm just beginning but am finding the whole process confusing.
For example, one of the words (on smart.fm) I'm asked to memorize is "少ない". I look up "少" and it's kun-reading is "すく.ない" if "少" = "すく.ない" then wouldn't "少ない" = "すく.ないない"? It seems redundant. I noticed there's a "." in the definition, I guess signifying "すく" is the root? Is that what I should memorize when I'm learning "少". In other words, when I'm learning kanji for the first time and come across "少" should I just memorize these three things 1) what the kanji looks like -> "少" 2) what it means -> small, few 3) its root -> "すく" is that the proper process for a beginner. Is memorizing "すく" enough because when I come across it next time, in actual text, it will always have a suffix which finishes it off and becomes a word? Just to reiterate, I don't get why when I look up a kanji kun reading it gives me a finished word. If the kanji = that finished word, why wouldn't writing that kanji be enough in actual text. There's always suffixes attached, leading me to believe the actual kun reading or root or whatever is smaller. What do I actually need to memorize right now as a beginner? Thanks 
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02-07-2010, 06:37 PM
The . is there to tell you where the kanji reading ends
少ない すく・ない means that 少 in this case is read as すく In my opinion there is no "proper process", I personally just learn readings as I come across words. After a while you start being able to guess what readings to use with some decent accuracy. Depending on the word the reading might change, and this is where you would look at the kana that makes up the rest of the word. For example: 少ない （すく・ない） 少し （すこ・し） I tried to memorise on and kun readings for each kanji but it was driving me insane. I personally find that simply reading every day does the trick. I'm not sure if I mis-understood your post but I hope this helped you a bit.
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02-07-2010, 07:08 PM
In my opinion, you should do this:
1. buy Kanji in Context (tremendously good book) 2. If you're a beginner, 10 kanji/week. Intermediate, 20. Advanced, 30. Put that many (in the order given in Kanji in Context) into Anki, a flashcard program on the computer. 3. Also add all the vocab words exactly as they appear in KiC under the kanji you've added. 4. Review from that. 5. Also write each kanji you're learning many, many times. 6. Enjoy learning 10–30 per week and being a Kanji Master Man.
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02-07-2010, 08:31 PM
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Good luck with Kanji, aphextwin.
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02-07-2010, 10:59 PM
If you go with Anki and load it up every day, you'll regret ever skipping a day of studying, because you'll suddenly have twice as many cards to review. I went on a two-week trip, and when I came back, 200 kanji had accrued, and it took forever to get caught up again, because these were 200 kanji I was unfamiliar with, and I was in the process of learning them when I went on vacation.
Just do it every day. As a beginner, you may be spending 10–20 minutes is all. Add 10 new kanji a week, then set it to show you, say, 5 new per day. For the first two days, you'll be learning new kanji. The other five days will be constant review. Once you've got around four times the number of kanji in your deck as you are learning per week, you'll really feel like you're permanently learning instead of just re-learning the same 10 kanji every day.
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02-07-2010, 11:32 PM
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02-08-2010, 05:29 AM
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Anyway they give you that whole word as an example, probably to give you something practical to relate the reading to, since すく・少 written as is cannot be used in the language. Think about like this.. if you knock the "ly" off of "slowly" does it still form an adverb in English? No of course not. Anyhow, what worked for me was, rather than memorizing readings for individual Kanjis, I simply studied vocabulary words and memorized the kanjis associated with each new word. Now this is less systematic, but it was easier for me because I always had something practical (a real word I could use when speaking/writing) to help me memorize it. If you desire to be able to hand write stuff though, memorizing kanji one by one, might be better, but I personally do not see much point in putting lots of effort into hand writing things, because of our friend the computer. Just reading and recognition is what is truly important in my opinion.
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02-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Thanks a lot guys, I read all the advice and though I still don't quite understand kanji, I feel like I'm on the verge of an "ahha" moment so I'll see where I am in a week or two.
Yuriyuri, in your example... 少ない （すく・ない） 少し （すこ・し） ... you said that if you came across the second of these in a newspaper or wherever, you might look it up because it's a new word and with new words, the reading of the kanji might change, right? But then, what's even the point of kanji, because if every time you see a new word with the same kanji character there's a chance the obscured non-hiragana part might have changed and you need to look it up, that seems really counterproductive and like a bad way to organize a language. Why not just use hiragana always if the very root kanji that's supposed to simplify things changes from word to word? I understand the language just is how it is, so I should get used to it, but I guess I'm not seeing the convenience of kanji. Also, I've heard people say how after you get familiar with kanji, sometimes you'll come across a new one and kinda know already what it's about or might mean. Could someone tell me a bit about how you infer that, is it just by the "primitives" or "radicals" used? Kyle, I'm gonna try Anki and try your pacing, but I just today started "Remembering the Kanji" so might stick with that for a while. Memorizing readings, meaning, and symbol was seriously not working. Maybe it will after I get a bit more used to the language, but for now I like Heisig's idea of just learning all the kanji, how to write them, and their meanings, and then learning the readings later on. I think breaking it up that way will help me, at least for now. That's the same thing I was doing when I played Slime Forest Adventure (memorize the kanji's appearance and a mnemonic) and it seemed to work great. It's only when I started trying to learn meaning, reading, and appearance at the same time that nothing seemed to stick. Anyone have any opinion of this method of breaking up the tasks? One last thing: If I studied the "Core 2000" and turned off the kanji setting so that everything appears in kana, would that be a really bad idea? I am basically trying to learn as much grammar, structure, words, etc. as possible in a short period of time so I think studying it will just help me in general to speak basic japanese and understand more, but if going through the Core 2000 in kana will somehow lay down bad memories in my brain or if it's just bad in general to learn that way without also learning the kanji at the same time, I might reconsider. I'd ideally just like to learn a lot of words and sentence patterns and then later on learn match the kanji to the individual words. Alright, thanks in advance for any help : )
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02-08-2010, 08:38 AM
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Kanji speeds up reading because entire ideas are represented in Kanji and not just phonetic sounds. Fluent speakers might have to look up Kanji every once in a while when reading books or something, but fluent English speakers have to look up words they don't know too. Not too different. Quote:
外国 is foreign country 語 is language 学 is school 部 is department 外国語学部 is Foreign language department. Not that easy for most compounds however. Figuring out what a Kanji means is more difficult. 海 漢 温 all have the radical for "Water" in them, but only some have anything to do with water at all. The last part is directed at Kyle, so I'll let him answer. My advice would be to not turn Kanji off though.
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