TRANSLATE THIS game
 

As some of you know I am a Jpn to Eng translator. Sometimes I come across sentences that could be translated several ways, so I thought it might be fun for those who feel they have some skills to use this thread to discuss possible translations for a sentence or phrase.

Of course, everyone can participate who is interested in English and Japanese, and questions are encouraged. It's not a "game" maybe so much as a a discussion with examples...

I came across this sentence tonight, and although it looks relatively simple, I struggled a little with an accurate translation...


(A person is outside at night...)

農家の窓にはあたたかい灯がとまっている。

Excuse me for interrupting but did this actually say 窓からには?

ACK! My mistake!

農家の窓にはあたたかい灯がとまっている。

I'll fix it in the first post too.....

農家の窓にはあたたかい灯がとまっている

Oops,thought it was まっている、 its とまっている。。...

There's warm light inside the window of the farm house?

とまる here means ある in my opinion

That was one that was getting me...とまっている

Especially with no kanji clue.

Uhm, that's an interesting sentence. I would say
"A warm light is waiting inside the window of the farm house"

とまっている

I don't think it is　と待っている

I know, but とまる (止まる?, 泊まる?, 留まる?) could mean "to stop", "to come to a halt", "to stay in a place", but also "to be docked" and "to abide".
Those meanings are different, but in my opinion they have a similar background concept: they refer to something that was moving before and now has stopped, or stays somewhere.
From the point of view of the person who is walking outside at night, the light is just... there! and seems to be "waiting" for him.
That's why I translated it using the verb "to wait", even if it's definitely not と待っている (the sentence would be then 農家の窓にはあたたかい灯が待っている, without と).

Now that I wrote this I realized that my translation isn't right...
a simple "There's a warm light inside the farm house's window" would probably be ok.

I see what you mean now. And I agree.

These are the sentences taken from a dictionary

たくさんの鳥が枝にとまっている。 Many birds are on the branch.
ハエが天井にとまっている。 The fly is on the ceiling.

とまっている　in my opinion, is on/in/

I'm curious as to what you thought it could have been mmm.
also i don't think that anything is intrinsically waiting for anyone...to me it seems that the light "resting" approximates the feeling i get from the Japanese.

I should have noticed and asked you about this at the same time I made my first post here about another mistake.

But 灯がともる is the usual phrase. I just cannot swear that i haven't heard 灯がとまる, though. As far as dictionary forms, the former would be the winner.

I think you're right, Nagoyankee...it's from a light novel, so every so often "unique" Japanese is used.

That's pretty much how I saw it. It's serene, in a way.

何もできはしない

I don't remember seeing this before today.

Is this part of the game, too? I know what it means but I'm trying hard not to participate and let the younger players play.

"Game" or just phrases we come across that we think we can stump each other with... I don't expect to stump you, Nagoyankee...but just to make discussion on forms we don't see as often. Please don't hold back any opinions...

Thanks MMM!

「何もできはしない」 means "There's nothing (someone) could do." It's more dramatic speech than everyday speech. You will hear it in plays, films, manga/anime, dramas, etc. You would look pretty strange if you said that orally in real life. However, you will see people using this phrase 「～～はしない」 in serious letters.

My own translation of 「農家の窓にはあたたかい灯がとまっている。」 would be:

"Warm light burned in the farmhouse windows."

There's no verb 'wait' in that sentence at all.

Thanks Nagoyankee. I think that "burning" conveys the warmth or serenity I felt was implied, (maybe I was overthinking it).

I had heard 「～はしない」before, but not 「何もできはしない」. I suppose it does sound a bit overly dramatic. This was from the same light novel, and it is from the perspective of a person who basically threw his life away after a tragic event, and was making excuses to himself about his pathetic state.

I'll try and post some more zingers...but if anyone else comes across a sentence or phrase that might make "the masters" think twice, please don't hesitate to share!

I felt the same thing from the original Japanese. While I wouldn't call this figurative speech, I really think that 'warm light' is an indirect way of expressing the tender, loving family atmosphere at dinner time or after dinner inside the house.

So I was actually right? Maybe I unleased a Japanese language gene into my system.

That's one of the fun, but frustrating things about deep language learning. Sometimes I know exactly what something means in Japanese, but I don't know how to describe it in English.

落ち着いた語気には、かつてのような若い鋭利さはない。

As a whole this sentence isn't so difficult, but the bold phrase 若い鋭利さ is a term I am not sure we use in English, at least in this way. "Youthful sharpness" is accurate, but is that really a phrase we would use?

(The narrator is seeing someone for the first time in a long time, and he has obviously matured over that interval. She makes that conclusion in the tone of his voice.)

-----

Oh, I was just reminded of one more, that might even get Nagoyankee...

目が堅い。

Someone who has "hard eyes" is someone who "can't fall asleep".

若い鋭利さ is one of those phrases!

目が堅い like an owl, a born night person

若い鋭利さ　raw edginess

目が堅い is a phrase that can be found in dictionaries, but it seems have faded from use in most of Japan. I have asked several people over the last couple weeks if they had used this term (meaning a night owl) and only those from the Kansai area were using it it. People from Kanto and north had never heard it before.

"raw edginess"--don't we lose the "youthful" aspect? I like "raw edginess" as a phrase, though.

Yes, I know about the regional differences. My mother is a born Nagoyan and I grew up hearing her say 目が堅い about my sister all the time. Nagoya isn't considered as part of Kansai but it certainly has lots of Kansai influence as it's only 100 kilometers (60 miles) from Kyoto. Now I live in Tokyo and as you said, I don't think I've heard the expression in Tokyo.

About the word 若い in 若い鋭利さ, I first opted for 'immature' and then changed it to 'raw' just because it sounded better in my own ear. You have to translate the かつてのような part anyway, which would enable the reader to know what time frame in this person's life this "edginess" represented.

But then what do I know? I'm just a regular Japanese guy walking down the street! :)

I mentioned to Nyororin that I heard some Nagoya men (in my very very limited experience) speak something that sounded close to Kansai-ben, so it makes sense to me that 目が堅い would be understood. The person from Hiroshima I asked wasn't familiar.

You'll never be just a regular guy walking down the street to us!

How would English-speakers translate this Japanese word to Englsih?

スキンシップ

That's a good one! It means the physical relationship between people...skin to skin, so to speak. It can be a mother and child, friends, pets, maybe even married couples.

I guess the best translation would "physical connection" or "physical contact".

uhhh... O.o I think it says something about.... getting crunk. That's my take ><

lol
 

Yeah thats what i get out of it ^^

Skinship? That's an odd one. ^^

Many Japanese don't know that it isn't actually an English word.

I think that's basically because it's such a useful word for us in Japan, where hugging and kissing aren't traditionally common. If we had to create a new word meaning the same thing but using kanji, it would have both looked and sounded much too direct to us.

The word gained an instant and permanent position in our language in the 60's, when the psychologists, educators, etc. wanted to introduce the Western ways of child-raising and interpersonal relationship. They used this new word 'スキンシップ' as THE key word in their efforts and it worked.

・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・ ・・

How about a new phrase that has been in HEAVY use the last few years? Is there a set phrase meaning the same thing in your language?

上から目線

I guess its English equivalent could be "to look down on (someone)".
There's a set phrase with this meaning also in my first language. Roughly translated, it would be "to look from above to down" (and, as 99% of this kind of expressions, it looses all its meaning when said in another language :rolleyes: )

I would have to agree. "To look down on someone".

Thanks Cyclamen and MMM!

To be frank, though, I was wondering if there was a noun phrase as the original word is a noun. But then I do understand that sometimes parts of speech must be changed when translating from one language to another in order to sound more natural to the speakers of that other language.

あの国には、彼女を受けている混沌が淀んでいます。

This sentence is confusing me...any help?

I would say that is a poorly constructed sentence. The 彼女を受けている part makes no sense to me.

EDIT: MMM, would you kindly check again if the sentence has been copied as it is?

That's what I feared. I may have guessed the wrong final kanji.

Here is how it is literally written:

あの国には、彼女を受けている混沌がよどんでいます。


ありがとう！

No no no, you had the correct kanji for よどむ. The part that bugs me is still the 彼女を受けている part.

It would look more 'correct' if that part were changed to 彼女を待ち受けている. I still would not call it a perfect sentence with that change but it certainly makes sense and becomes dramatically more translatable.

I'm going to take the liberty to give my translation of the selfishly-corrected sentence, so I can go to the P parlor.

"In that country, a stagnant chaos awaits her arrival."

I really think the original sentence is incorrect. Who wrote it if I may ask?