Pronunciation of 'g' sound in Japanese
 

I am just beginning to try to learn some Japanese. I have looked at various books, some of which suggest that the 'g' in Japanese is always pronounced like the hard 'g' in the English word 'egg', but others seem to contradict that and say that, in the middle of words (as in, well, tamago) it is more like 'ng' in the English word 'long'.

Is it a regional thing, perhaps? Or does it depend on where in a word the 'g' appears? Or, perhaps, as I suspect, rather more complicated than either of those...?

The "G" is always a hard sound, like in egg.

Thanks, MMM! That's music to my ears. Simple.

It is always a hard g, but the 'ng' sound is hard. There's less 'n' than in long, but...ah, it's hard to explain. If you just always use a plain g, that's fine, no one will call you out for it. But if you ever move to Japan or just speak to enough Japanese speakers, you'll eventually pick up that in some words, there's a definite 'n' influence.

From the listening exercises that I've done, I can say that sometimes there's enough 'n' to trip you up. If I'm not really familiar with a word, sometimes I can't tell if they're saying 'g' or 'n'.

I admit that the "g" sound puzzles me alot in Japanese. I watch alot of Japanese TV and listen to alot of Japanese music and many times the particle I know it is "ga" coz it marks the subject sounds way too close to "na"...and that my misunderstanding of the "g" messes me up also with regular words.
Another particle that used to mess me up is the direct object one (o). Depending on the final sound of the word before it, it can sound like a wo.

But when it is not you language it is easy to hear wrong sounds trust me. I have a guy who is trying to learn Italian asking me for some help. He can't hear the sound of vowels ending a word when the next word starts with a vowel...while I (being Italian) can hear them pretty clear.

I agree with chryuop completely.

Sometimes.. ga is pronoucned like gnaw.. that was in an old video though..

I hear they rewrote the standards for the language in the 80's or something?

Thanks, all. It makes it difficult knowing no Japanese speakers and having no access to Japanese radio or television. I have a few language CDs, but that's not quite the same.

Same thing with writing practice. If I write a few hiragana, they might look pretty good to me, but like total crap to a Japanese person.

If i'm having a hard time finding something to listen to i always go to www.fnn-news.com: and listen to the news on there, just hit the play all button and away you go :)

Wow thanks for that! a bit of AJATT for us all :P (oo, I managed an acronym! woop) I was going to suggest that sushidushi listen to Japanesepod101.com as thier lessons are of a very casual, real life tone. It cant be so bad as its the backbone for about 90% of my knowledge! One lesson a day (10-20mins) helps me keep up with the bigboys here :)

Well.. it helps anyways :p

Really? I did some listening exercises a while back and they said that sometimes when the "g" is in the middle of the word, it has an "ng" sound like in "sing." Do they not use that pronunciation in Japan?

There is a bunch of programs around to watch television on your PC for free. You won't have problems to see Chinese channels (the net is full of those), but even Japanese ones are numerous. I find the best one to watch Japanese TV is KeyHoleTV, but even TvuPlayer is very good.
All free programs mind, don't get scammed and go pay for them.

Throw away the books that tell you that G is always pronounced the same. Keep the good ones that say there are two G sounds in Japanese.

It has little to do regions but it has to do much more with education and upbringing. I remember during the first grade, our lady teacher kept telling us to differenciate one from the other. This was in Nagoya, between Tokyo and Osaka. Currently I live in Tokyo where I still hear two G sounds from most people.

Now, I need to point out the fact that no one should practice the consonant G by itself in Japanese. You will never get to use it alone because it never appears at the end of a syllable or word. Whenever practicing Japanese pronunciation, think everything in terms of syllables. In other words, think in kana, and not in each vowel and consonant. What I'm saying here may not make sense to English-speakers right now, but it's of utmost importance.　

Consider the following sentences/words. Syllables in red = hard G. Syllables in green = soft G

学生がふたり走って行きました。＝　がくせいがふたりはしっていきました。
= Gakusei ga hutari hashitte ikimashita.　

Particle が will ALWAYS be pronounced softly. No exceptions here. Use the hard G and you will irritate many Japanese ears.

学生（がくせい）、学校（がっこう）、外国人（がいこ くじん）、ガンダム、ガス、ごま, etc.
All these words start with がぎぐげご. Use the hard G. Don't just read. Read out loud or you will waste your time.

優雅（ゆうが）、以外（いがい）、天国（てんごく）、 地獄（じごく）、サイゴン、フォルクスワーゲン, etc.
がぎぐげご appears in non-word-starting syllables. Use the soft G.

I'll be honest, I have never heard of this different sounds for が business. I have taught Japanese from 3 different textbooks and have never seen anything saying anything of the sort.

Just to be sure, I spoke to a Japanese friend before posting this, and she said the two が sounds in 学生がふたり走って行きました。would be exactly the same sound. I don't know if it is a regional thing (I lived in Kansai, and she is from Kansai as well) so if that makes a difference, then that explains my confusion.

I would live to see a YouTube video showing an example of the different が sounds.

Now if you are talking when people are in conversation and shorten words or skim over sounds, I can imagine that (like saying "gimme" instead of "give me" in English), but you have me stumped so far.

Weird. This is something I was actually taught in school and taught by my parents. Naturally, I taught my own son the same as well. More importantly, the two different G sounds are something I hear on a daily basis. I mean, as you know we can't say anything without using the particle が.

I'll be looking for a Youtube video, too.

Nagoyankee, I looked over your word list, and I suppose I can hear a slightly softer tone in words like 以外 or サイゴン, but I have never heard anything close to an N or M sound associated with が sounds.

I looked on YouTube, but didn't see anything, but that doesn't mean there isn't something there.

You learn something new every day...

Well, it wasn't me who said it was close to an N or M sound. I used my own vague term "soft G". In Japanese, it's called 鼻濁音（びだくおん）. 　When we explain this sound to small kids, we use a pharse like 「強く’が’と言わないで、鼻から音を抜くような感じ で柔らかく言いなさい。」. So it's like a nasal "nga".

I'm watching the 2 o'clock news on Fuji TV now and I do hear two G sounds very clearly probably because it's a professional announcer reading the news. So maybe it's regional as you said. I'll be listening carefully when I watch some Kansai comedians tonight.

Thanks Nagoyankee! I'll ask about 鼻濁音.

鼻濁音 - Wikipedia

According to Wikipedia this never made it to West Japan, and is mainly a Tokyo and north thing. It isn't taught in typical schools, but is taught to those focused on broadcast (TV and radio announcers) but overall as a language phenomenon it is fading out.

Thanks for the new vocabulary...now to watch some Tokyo news to see if I can catch it!

It`s totally normal in Nagoya... ですが uses the softer ng-ish sound in a very pronounced way. Saying it hard would just sound weird. Two sounds definitely exist, and although they might not be "officially" taught I can`t imagine someone using the wrong one.

ETA; Looking at and reading the examples that Nagoyankee posted, they`re all very clear but it is really hard to put down in text. It`s like you go to make a g sound but never let your tongue touch as it would in a hard g.

Found an interesting YouTube video. It's all in Japanese but it should illustrate the point to the OP and everyone else.
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lol at the video nagoyankee.

This is how i percieved it too.. saying that..

I read　headache as
あたまがいたい　

and toothache as
はがいたい

That is what I meant...sadly what I hear is:
あたまがいたい ==> あたまんないたい
はがいたい ==> はんないたい

And sadly I hear the same thing also in many words...so if I don't know the word I go look it up in the dictionary with a completely wrong spelling.

Im not alone!!

Sorry to hear this is happening to you. A lil more perseverance and you will be just fine.

I was amazed by that video because I felt it was clearly made to help those in Western Japan produce the nasal G sound. Those of us in the Eastern half don't need the lesson as we already know how!

I`m feeling pretty glad that I learned Japanese in Aichi, as this sort of came naturally.

Or as my friend from Kansai said "That's interesting, but it's nice being from a place where you don't have to worry about it."

I had a female Japanese teacher a couple of years ago. She was from Kamakura but living in Canada for nearly 30 years.
There was a girl in our class who's last name was 'Gill' (pronounced the same was as 'gill' as in the fish's gill). The teacher had an accent and she always pronounced 'Gill' as 'Jill' (as in the 'Jack and Jill' kind).

I'm really interested in knowing why she prononced it like that, despite being corrected so many times.
By the way, Gill was an Indian girl - does it have something to do with that?

Also, MMM, could you please ask your friend if that's how someone from Kamakura pronounces it, how would someone from the Kansai region (Hyogo prefecture) pronounce it?
Thanks

Here's a link in English to supplement those provided above about the difference in "g" sound.Japanese phonology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You'll need a bit of understanding of linguistics terminology, but it's not too complicated. Just think of the two sounds as those of "give" and the "ng" in "sing." Native English speakers should already be able to hear the difference (because we have the difference in English already!) if they know to listen for it.

What's interesting is that, according to the phonology research, there are actually three "g" sounds in Japanese, represented in the international phonetic alphabet by /g/ (hard), /ŋ/ (soft like in "sing"), and /ɣ/ (we don't have this sound in English, but it exists in Dutch, Greek, Irish, Polish, etc.). To me, it's like making the soft sound, but adding a bit of Spanish's "j" sound a bit. You can hear it at Voiced velar fricative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

But don't worry about the third sound. It's used by a minority of speakers.

In my opinion, the useful and simple rule (but only beginners should rely on the rule rather than experience) is: hard-g for the beginning of words and soft-g for the particle. This is, of course, nowhere near the actual truth of the matter, but it's a useful start for beginners.

You can also get into the middle of words that are loaned from Chinese, etc., but that comes more easily through experience than memorization of rules.

For a similar phonological issue, read about yotsugana: Yotsugana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It really shows the variety of Japanese.

No idea about Kamakura, but she thought a Hyogo person pronounces both "G" sounds the same.

I have been a student of teacher of Japanese for not quite 20 years and I never heard of this distinction before this thread. I would say to beginning or even intermediate or advanced students, don't worry about it. If you overconsciously try and make this sort of adjustment your Japanese is going to sound funny. Unless you plan on being a TV or radio announcer keep it in the back of your mind, but nothing more.

Sorry if I "daburu" what others have said.

According to a Japanese linguist named Mizutani, there have been educational fashions on this topic. It used to be that the intervocallic (between vowels) pronunciation "ng" (as in "singer" not "finger") was favored; later, the "g" sound came into educational favor. However, both are correct.

You will notice that the "ng" sound is popular with older people and with enka songs. I personally prefer the intervocallic "ng" pronunciation.

The short answer is that 'g' isn't changing it is 'ん' coming before either a 'g' or 'k' sound. This is why 日本語 has a nasally 'ん' and it sounds like a double 'g'. There is a bunch of rules for the sound of 'ん'. It depends what sound comes after it. Basically, it has 4 different sounds. Not completely different but considerably. It is either 'n', 'N', 'ng' or 'm'('m' is aruguably 'n'. It's just that it sounds like a 'm' when it comes before 'm','p', or 'b').

Yukigami, what you say is true but you're thinking of something else.

We're not talking about the "n" before -t, -k, -m and +V (morpheme boundary plus vowel), all of which are different, but the pronunciation of "g" between vowels.