Kanji help

[addictedKool]

I am using Basic Kanji Book Vol. 1 to learn Kanji yet I am confused with the "Kun-yomi" and "On-yomi" bit. Which one do I learn? Should I learn only Kun-yomi or both?

[chryuop]

It is not really the same thing, but let me try with this example. You are studying English, what you call the place where someone lives? DO you need to learn only home or you need to learn house too?
Now, as I said the example is not really the same thing, but I think it might help you to understand.

As e general guideline I would say the On-yomi it is used to form compound kanji, while kun-yomi you will mostly find them as stand alone words or to form Japanese names. But this is very very summerized since there are tons of exceptions. If you take for example tha kanji 火 (fire), where the On-yomi is カ and the kun-yomi is ひ and ほ, when it is taken alone (as far as I know) it is always pronounced ひ, while か only in compound. But if you consider 足 you will find it with its kun readings as stand alone as あし (foot/leg), たる/たりる (be enough) or たす (to add). But you will also find its onyumi as stand alone ソク since it is the counter for foot wears.

As you can see by this little example you need to know both readings...but the problem is not if you need to know both, but how you get to know them.
There are 2 main "schools" of thoughts about it. Some people prefere learning only the readings they meet when they do exercises, read book, newspapers and so on. Some people prefere taking the list of the most used kanji and learn by heart all readings for each kanji. There are pro and cons for both way of learning, so up to you to pick which one you prefere.

[addictedKool]

So how should I study? Should I just study kun-yomi first and worry about on-yomi when I need to? It seems pretty daunting to learn two pronounciation for every kanji I wish to study...

[jesselt]

If that seems daunting then you should just give up, because a large percentage of Kanji have way more than just two readings.

下

for example~

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by jesselt

If that seems daunting then you should just give up, because a large percentage of Kanji have way more than just two readings.

下

for example~

let's see by memory if I get them all...
カーげ
したーしもーもとーさがるーさげるーくだすーくだるー くださるーおろすーおりる
if I well remember those are all the ones in my flashcard...let's if someone adds some missing ones

[addictedKool]

Originally Posted by jesselt

If that seems daunting then you should just give up, because a large percentage of Kanji have way more than just two readings.

下

for example~

Touche.

It just caught me by surprise when I opened the Kanji book and saw there were more than one pronunciation for a single kanji.

[Tarto]

That's pretty much the reaction most people have

chryuop is right about the two main ways of learning and different people will give you different answers.

I clearly belong to the first category. We tend to forget what we don't use, especially abstract readings that are not connected to any concrete image. I find it much more effective to learn kanji in actual context.

I would also like to add that learning the meaning is as important as learning the pronunciation (if not more). It will help you understand some words you see for the first time, because you know the meaning of each character (sometimes even only one). It's hard to explain that to a beginner but trust me, it will develop your "kanji sense".

After some time studying the language, you will start seeing the same kanji used in different words, usually with related meanings and this will help reinforce what you will have learned.

Again, this is a personal opinion and not everyone will share it.

Don't think of it as a daunting task. It takes a lot of time and effort, but it pays off in the not-so-long term .

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by chryuop

There are 2 main "schools" of thoughts about it. Some people prefere learning only the readings they meet when they do exercises, read book, newspapers and so on. Some people prefere taking the list of the most used kanji and learn by heart all readings for each kanji. There are pro and cons for both way of learning, so up to you to pick which one you prefere.

Never knew there were two schools! There is only one in Japan, which is the first one you mentioned. I don't think the second method works well unless the student has an innate photographic memory.

If a student is learning kanji in a good order AND in context by using a proper book, most of the first few hundred kanji that he learns will be in their kun-readings. The kun-readings are more important in an early stage because they are the meanings of the kanji in Japanese.

Take 空 for example. Its kun-reading is そら. What's the Japanese word for "sky"? It's そら（空）！

The on-reading is くう, but you will waste your time and effort if you try to remember that the first time you encounter the kanji 空. I say this because you don't know when you will encounter a compound using 空, in which 空 is read くう. There is NO correlation between そら and くう to start with, making learning both simultaneously difficult. Only when you encounter a word like 空港（くうこう=airport） or 空気（くうき= air）, you can learn its on-reading くう.

It may be 6 months later when you learn a compound using the kanji you encountered today. Could be even longer. This is why learning the on-reading with the kun can be a big waste of energy. Frankly you won't be able to remember the on when you see a compound later on.

I actually think the learner would end up hating kanji and therefore the language itself if he practices this "second" school's method.

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

Never knew there were two schools! There is only one in Japan, which is the first one you mentioned. I don't think the second method works well unless the student has an innate photographic memory.

If a student is learning kanji in a good order AND in context by using a proper book, most of the first few hundred kanji that he learns will be in their kun-readings. The kun-readings are more important in an early stage because they are the meanings of the kanji in Japanese.

Take 空 for example. Its kun-reading is そら. What's the Japanese word for "sky"? It's そら（空）！

The on-reading is くう, but you will waste your time and effort if you try to remember that the first time you encounter the kanji 空. I say this because you don't know when you will encounter a compound using 空, in which 空 is read くう. There is NO correlation between そら and くう to start with, making learning both simultaneously difficult. Only when you encounter a word like 空港（くうこう=airport） or 空気（くうき= air）, you can learn its on-reading くう.

It may be 6 months later when you learn a compound using the kanji you encountered today. Could be even longer. This is why learning the on-reading with the kun can be a big waste of energy. Frankly you won't be able to remember the on when you see a compound later on.

I actually think the learner would end up hating kanji and therefore the language itself if he practices this "second" school's method.

Sorry Nagoyankeeさん, I should have been more precise. When I was talking about two ways of studying I meant amongst non Japanese.
Personally I like better the second way I listed and I feel more confortable learning kanji this way. Mine is not only a way of learning kanji, but a way to learn more words.
You see, when you mentioned the kanji 空 and say that you learn i is sky, I think it is perfect for a Japanese kid. But if a father tells his kid something like 鞄を空けて the kid will understand even without knowing how to write it. I would just sit there saying huuuhhh??????
When I study my kanji and learn 空= クウ　そら、から、あく、あける、あき、すく、すかす 、むなしい I am not learning by heart the sound of a drawing, but actually learning some words, bringing me closer to the genearl knowledge of a Japanese kid.

True it is not easy, above all for what concerns the 音読み. Probably if you asked me amongst the kanji I know which ones are read こう I would have problems to tell you all of them...maybe a couple
But the fact is that in my opinion the student need to associate more the meaning to the knaji and the same time the reading. For the oldest kanji of my studies now it comes natural when I see the kanji reading it almost without thinking it. However when I study them I don't associate sound to pictures. I associate pictures to meanings and sound to meanings, then match them. So for example when I study 岩 I study that it represent a rock. Then I put next to it the words ガン and いわ and associate to those word a rock. So when I see the flashcard of 岩 first thing I see is a rock, then I think how to say rock and it comes out the reading. Only after a long time the association 岩 いわ becomes direct. That is why if I had seen when I first started studying the kanji 間 I wouldn't say カンーケン　あいだーあいーま...but I associated first the kanji either to a gap of space or time or to a measure of almost a mile.

Of course the hard times come with kanji such as 付, where learning the readings fortunately is easy, but associating all the meanings remains a very hard hustle


But as I said, this works fine for me, doesn't mean it is the best way or that it can work for everyone.

[KyleGoetz]

I learn the kun and the major on. I tend to know the major on since I already know some words in which the character appears. It's just a matter of connecting the two.

For example, I knew 最低 when I learned how to write 低. Thus, it was trivial for me to learn てい as the on-yomi.