Do you need a JLPT1?
 

I've heard a few people complaining about studying for their JLPT1. Apparently, almost none of it is helpful for everyday life, and the words and kanji are almost never used by everyday people.

To speak, write, and understand fluently enough, will a JLPT2 suffice? I'm not wanting to get into a Japanese university or anything, so on a local level will it be enough?

I presume that stands for Japanese level proficiency Test?

If it does, I am also wondering why the words are not used by all the everyday people, presumimng it's the case. You would wondwer wy they have such a test case.

yes it is enough

I don`t know where you are getting your information about the content of the test... Are you sure you`re not mixing it up with the Kanji Kentei?
JLPT1 is still not truly fluency level, and the content is most definitely used by real people in everyday life.

Do you need it though? Unless you are aiming for a Japanese university or want it on your resume to get a job in Japan... No. You don`t "need" any level of it to get by in life. You could probably stumble and get by at the JLPT4 level. You`d sure miss out on a whole lot though...
It`s a test of ability. Not a requirement to speak Japanese or live in Japan. It isn`t necessary to take at all.

If the words and kanji used in the JLPT1 were never used in daily life, there is no way I`d have passed it.

In my experience JLPT1 is only required if you want to be a translator or interpreter and have no experience.

In my opinion, being JLPT2, JLPT2 is insufficient for being in a Japanese university studying in Japanese. Not being JLPT1, I can't speak about the value of getting JLPT1, but just being at JLPT2 is insufficient IMHO.

Being somewhere between JLPT2 and JLPT1 may be sufficient, but being just barely at JLPT2-level is not.

About the time I passed JLPT2, I attended a high school history class and couldn't understand half of what the prof was talking about. Granted, it was probably a lot of Nobunagas and Battle at [Japanese place name], but still, I don't think being a just-passed JLPT2er is sufficient from a practical standpoint.

So tell me when's the last time you used いかんせん、んがために or 禁じ得ない.

Seriously Nyororin, JLPT1 is very academic. I agree that somewhere between JLPT 1 and JLPT 2 is the sweetspot.

And no JLPT test will make you fluent, conversly, you could haveno JLPT quals but totally fluent.

Sweet spot for what exactly? You could technically get by in life without much problems with JLPT3. But if you want to read anything more difficult than a light novel, it`s going to be pretty hard without JLPT1 or thereabout.

I never said it wasn`t academic or that every little bit of it was used on a regular basis. Of course there are going to be words, phrases, and kanji that aren`t used on a daily basis. But can you honestly say that everything added between JLPT2 and 1 is hardly ever used? If so, I certainly don`t share your opinion. Remember, you don`t have to have a perfect score to pass, and I am fairly certain that at least 80% of the vocabulary and patterns appearing on the test are common enough to fall into the "regularly encountered" category.

Maybe my household is just weird, but んがために and んばかりに are everyday terms - and 禁じえない likes to rear it`s head when discussions get passionate. At the very least they aren`t that uncommon, especially if you read more than manga. Maybe they`re used more in different regions? My husband`s family speaks what is supposedly one of the oldest dialects in Japan...

Does it really matter if they're used in every day life or not? JLPT1 is supposed to be hard, so it should be testing you on difficult material.

what i am missing is a level between 1 and 2, like 英検準１級. that could be useful to prove a certain proficiency.

my very limited experience of JLPT is that you can pass level 2 without studying but for level 1 you do need to study.

now this wasn't really what the OP asked for so i will just have to blame myself for wanting to try my new netbook :mtongue:

Is your husband's family from Nagoya?

No, they are not. Why exactly do you ask?

Wow, you can pass level 2 without studying?
Do the Kanji just magically make their way into your head?
LOL

since it did that for me and i am in no way a very smart person i am certain it is possible for others too. but i reckon i should have written "without studying too much" to be on the safe side.

You must be married to a family of poets (yes your household must be weird). Most of my Japanese friends have no idea what んがために means and I never seen it in the countless novels or newspaper articles I've seen. A Japanese teacher friend of mine has never heard of 禁じ得ない until she started working, only because one of her co-workers has a habit of using the word (she had look the word up in the dictionary).

Nyororin, sometimes you just like to put words into people's mouth to make yourself look smart. I mean what the hell do you think sweetspot means? Read the original 1st post!! The guy is looking for fluency, but with no intentions of going to a university. So in that context sweetspot means you possess enough knowledge so to express yourself naturally however you wanted where you only worry about what you are going to say instead of how you going to join the words together. JLPT3 is enough for fluency? What are you smoking woman?!

More than half of all the grammar in JLPT are either formal or written Japanese only. They should go light on those things and focus more on the everyday since it is really designed for Japanese learners.

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JLPT is rubbish at the end of the day, it only tests Listening and Reading, no Writing or Speaking. You can be JLPT1 and still stuck.

JLPT will only tell you what you NEED to know, but how well you can use that body of knowledge is purely up to you through lots of practice. Just doing JLPT exercises will help you achieve fluency but that by itself is nowhere near enough. As stated, it is missing 2 major components, writing and speaking, so you need to make the extra effort to plug those significant oversights by the system.

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Why the hostility kirakira?

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I think you are reading too much into her answer. He asked a private question and she answered it. Maybe she doesn't feel like giving out personal information without knowing why he is asking.

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kirakira, I am not seeing what you are seeing. She said her husband's family supposedly speaks the oldest dialect in japan. Is that what you are talking about? What is the big deal about that?

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I think it depends to where will you be going..
coz I passed JLPT1 but when I arrived in Shiga, people here tend to speak kansai dialect which is totally different from what I've learned from Japanese classes~ but since the root words is still the same, it is only a matter of time for me to catch up with my communication life.. huhu~
hmm, my friends who failed every test of JLPT still have no problem in his everyday life here.. from what I heard, JLPT is important if you would like to work in Japan based companies and stuff~

I`m sorry kirakira, I really don`t know what on earth I have done to make you want to go after me anytime I post something about language, but it`s really starting to get old.

As for putting words into people`s mouths - I never said that JLPT3 was "fluent", nor did I ever say that every single word on the JLPT1 was used in daily life. I know of plenty of people who make it through life perfectly well, living in Japan, the full works... Who struggled or are struggling to pass JLPT3. I meant exactly what I wrote - "You could technically get by in life without much problems with JLPT3."

The sad thing is, I completely agree with you about the JLPT being a very very flawed way of measuring language proficiency... But you never gave me the chance to express my agreement before jumping to criticize what I said - as usual.

As someone who lived throught it personally I can tell you this:
No test can make you fluent in any language. A test can check your knowledge, but fluency is something else.
To be fluent you need to live in contact with native speakers 24 hours a day...so either you go to Japan or you marry one in your country.

Two things:

1. I think chryuop has a very good and accurate definitino of "fluent." I see that word bandied about by conversational speakers as if they were fluent all the time. Fluency to me is the ability to almost always say exactly what you want to say without editing to avoid phraseology you don't know, but you don't have to have the native accent.

The third alternative to chryuop's ways to attain and maintain fluency is to get a job at a Japanese embassy in your country. I have a friend who did this. I haven't heard her speak Japanese in a while, but it was very, very good. I could sense no hesitation on her part. She may not have been fluent, but she was pretty damn close—closer than I in any case.

2. We all know the oldest dialect of Japanese is Korean, guys. Stop fighting. ;)

For further reference guys, I'm female :)

I didn't intend for this post to cause arguments or anything, so please don't. Japanese is different to many people, I was looking for different idea's and opinions, but please don't get nasty with anyone over it.

Okay, maybe 'fluent' isn't the right word. More of 'enough knowledge of the Japanese language to survive comfortably in the country'.

Nokutetsu, I would call that "conversational." Or, at least, nearly conversational. To me, conversational is the only other concrete name before fluent.

Something like:
1. beginner
2. ??? something goes here ???
3. conversational (comfortable in pretty much any "everyday" situation)
4. fluent (being able to say pretty much anything without having to walk around your weak points)
5. native (pretty much flawless in usage and accent)

I don't know about that. I can speak only about my language, but all Italian people have different accents and about flawless...well yea in our heart we wish it LOL.

2. Intermediate

I think "intermediate" is a good choice.

I'd just like to point out that I think very few people ever move from (3) to (4). It's also a huge leap.

Even fewer (almost none) move from (4) to (5). I think maybe years upon years of living in the country OR growing up there is about the only way to attain level (5). OR being some sort of language savant.

Edit: @chryuop: When I mean "flawless," I mean "flawless compared to how a(n average) native speaker sounds." So a native, by default, sounds like a native. Whether I sound like a Genovese or Neapolitan, I'd still sound like a native. Even a Pakistani who sounds exactly like a chav would still be speaking English as a native. But I suppose this would never occur in fact.