i cannot make it out!!!!!!!

[freegreatcharter]

first go off the topic for a while,why "can't" is used more than "cannot" or "can not" ,"can't" 's pronunciation is similar to can,this is misleading



back to the topic,who can explain for me in which situation the non-vocal is read as vocal,not like english,(eg.street-read as sdreet)i think it seems to have no regulation,such as 旭川(あさひかわ)、品川(しながわ),and the more difficult is ,in which situation non-vocal is read as vocal without adding vocal dot
and in which situation small つ appears,eg.食器(しょくっき)国会(こっかい)
when the former kanji's last kana is in the same 行 with the latter kanji's first kana?
i memorise vocabulary,while not memorising tone,is it a big problem?
please HELP me,this has been puzzling me for weeks,any reply is preciated

[KyleGoetz]

As to the English question, it's the same reason that when you put 你 and 好 together, the tone of 你 changes from ni3 to ni2: to simplify pronunciation. "Can't" just reflects the pronunciation. However, it is considered incorrect to write contractions like this in formal writing. You would never seen an academic paper, for example, using "can't," "don't," "wouldn't," etc.

As to the Japanese question, there are definitely linguistic rules, but it's hard to define them—the rule actually is incomplete. I wrote a computer program about 5 years ago that generated proper Japanese based on the rule, but the rule is not always right. I can't find the program anymore, but I based it off a wikipedia page (linked below, I think).

Suffice to say, with about a year to two years you will have the rule internalized completely unintentionally, and very rarely will you be surprised by any exceptions and only sporadically will you get it wrong. And, just so you know, the voicing/devoicing you're speaking of is called "rendaku," 連濁. Rendaku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[komitsuki]

can't is very common in English speech because "n" and "t" prounounciations are both generated at the very same position inside of one's mouth.

[KyleGoetz]

Oh yeah, and OP mentions that "can't" and "can" sound the same. I can't speak for other accents, but in the US, the accents I'm familiar with have the stress and pronunciation of the "a" very subtly different.

When I imagine "I can walk on my own," I think of the "a" in "can" as a schwa. /ə/

When I imagine "I can't . . . ," I think of the "a" as something like /æ/.

This is, of course, when just said normally in a sentence.

[TalnSG]

Kyle that is definitely a case of regionalize pronunciation when "can't" drifts towards "cain't".

But I think the real problem that freegreatcharter is encountering are just people with lazy speech patterns. The T should be easy to distinguish if the speaker's enunciation is clear. My guess is that the speaker is doing what my parents considered mumbling or being mush-mouthed. The T is not distinguishable because the speaker is barely pronouncing it in the first place. Unfortunately there is no remedy that I know of .... other than asking the speaker to repeat or speak clearer, which would probably irritate them.

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Oh yeah, and OP mentions that "can't" and "can" sound the same. I can't speak for other accents, but in the US, the accents I'm familiar with have the stress and pronunciation of the "a" very subtly different.

When I imagine "I can walk on my own," I think of the "a" in "can" as a schwa. /ə/

When I imagine "I can't . . . ," I think of the "a" as something like /æ/.

This is, of course, when just said normally in a sentence.

[KyleGoetz]

I didn't mean to render can't like cain't, and I don't think I did. But I do agree with what you're saying about enunciation. But no one enunciates the "t" that clearly in a standard conversation in the US. I'm thinking back to the Boston and various NY accents, the Midwestern accents, Southern accents, Texan accents, and SAE. I don't think anyone really enunciates the "t" clearly in daily speech. Yes, in poetry readings or speeches they do.

I speak Standard American English natively, so I was trying to render it the way it happens in SAE, not like in the Southeast. In SAE, we schwa the "a" in "can" in normal speech. Don't we?

"I can go" becomes
[aj' kən go:'] or something. Not sure I did the accents correctly. But the "can" gets destressed in a neutral meaning (not emphasizing "I as opposed to him" or "go as opposed to stay").

"I can't go" becomes
[aj kænt go:], where you just absolutely cannot put more stress on the "I" and "go" and still sound natural (unless you're trying to emphisize "I as opposed to him" or "go as opposed to stay").

The /æ/ doesn't sound ike the "ai" in "cain't." That vowel would be something like /ɜi/. And /æ/ is not a regional pronunciation. It's SAE pronunciation for the "a" and "can't" and "dad." I think you're getting confused.

You can listen to a sound of it here: Near-open front unrounded vowel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit YouTube - The schwa-ing of "a" in Standard American English (My attempt at demonstration—video should be available soon after it's done being processed by YouTube) My Southeastern accent is particularly laughable, especially since I haven't tried it on in a long time. I'm not SEern, so I can only do that accent if I work at it for a few minutes to get back into the swing of things. I also chose not to characterize my second attempt as a South Texan accent (which is my other native accent) because there are subtle differences in the "I" and "cain't" from what I attempted in the second part of the video. Regardless, I was focused more on the SAE demo and made an idiot of myself in the other accent attempt.

And apologies for my ugly mug and huge chin the size of an X-box.

[TalnSG]

Sorry to confuse there, Kyle. I knew you meant the "schwa". But invariably as you move into the south and then west that "schwa" sound drifts into the "ai" that is even more offensive to ears of even us natives - even "cayunt" . And its really blatant when this is lazy speech, as opposed to just hurriedly meshed together.

[snbzk]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

I don't think anyone really enunciates the "t" clearly in daily speech. Yes, in poetry readings or speeches they do.

This reminds me of an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent in which they were somehow able to bust a guy because both he and his daughter enunciated their Ts.

In SAE, we schwa the "a" in "can" in normal speech. Don't we?

This is true if something follows "can." If I just say "I/he/she can," the 'a' is the same as in "can't" whether the subject or the verb is stressed, but the sound is held longer than in "can't."

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by snbzk

This reminds me of an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent in which they were somehow able to bust a guy because both he and his daughter enunciated their Ts.

This is true if something follows "can." If I just say "I/he/she can," the 'a' is the same as in "can't" whether the subject or the verb is stressed, but the sound is held longer than in "can't."

Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks for clearing up some ambiguity I created.

Although this whole thread really belongs in the English-learning subforum, not the Japanese, no?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by freegreatcharter

first go off the topic for a while,why "can't" is used more than "cannot" or "can not" ,"can't" 's pronunciation is similar to can,this is misleading

I don't think I've ever confused the two.

If you say them right, you'll be understood.