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Japanese Learners Use Too Many Kanji!
Let's post in this thread whenever we come across someone over-using kanji (since so many learners do). Perhaps if learners read this thread, they will learn examples of times to lay off the kanji!
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And a couple I know of that I don't come across often but did when I was in school: Quote:
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the first one i will agree is rediculous, but the last two i see and use quite often actually.
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I was explicitly corrected when I was a student and used them. My (Japanese-citizen) professor may have even deducted points off my essays. It may even have happened when I attended university in Japan as well, but I may have learned by then not to use those kanji in that way. I was taught that it is poor style to use kanji for 〜て下さる (but not for を下さる) and poor style to use 出来る rather than できる. Sort of like writing "labour" or "specialise" in the US. It's technically correct, but poor style to do so. Or maybe more like writing "can't" instead of "cannot," e.g. It's technically correct, but considered poor style in certain contexts. Some quick googling revealed this: Quote:
Additionally, I know for a fact there is a "Japanese style guide" that says you should only use the kanji version of 下さる when speaking of receiving an object, not when someone does something for you. That is to say, ○コーヒを下さい ×宿題を出して下さい ○宿題を出してください On a Mac, typing ください in the first and third examples automatically went to kanji after hitting spacebar. However, in the second example, I had to hit it twice (the first time it remained kana). So Mac software seems to recognize the style rule, too. Finally, this website confirms what I said about ください: 「下さい」と「ください」の使い分け（広報Q&A）：日本 広報協会 Quote:
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My Japanese text books frequently used ~て下さい in the first book but then randomly stopped using it in the second book. Weird.
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I see dekiru written in Kanji all the time.
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I also wonder about this. On Facebook I sometimes see some Japanese native speakers write:
頑張って whereas others will simply write がんばって I think the key is whether the hiragana version of the word is unambiguous enough for not being confused with something else that is pronounced the same. So I'd say the rule of thumb is something like: If it's a very common expression, hiragana should be specific enough.... Still confusing though: In my Assimil books I see 行きます but できます is always written in Hiragana (maybe the latter one cannot be expressed with Chinese characters?) |
それは問題の漢字のものを入れるのですか?
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Obviously Nago or Yuri could come along and shoot what I'm saying down, but I feel fairly confident in what I'm saying simply because I'm finding Japanese articles online agreeing with me. |
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1. それ would be used to refer to something you have experience with but I don't. For example, when talking of a vacation you went on that I did not, you'd say その旅は楽しかった。 If I'd gone with you, you would say あの旅は楽しかった。 Analogically, you should have used あれ instead. But I don't think that's even necessary here. Remember that Japanese is a subject-deleting language (that's not the right term...maybe our semi-resident amateur linguist can chime in with the proper terminology?). 2. You misordered 漢字 and 問題 to end up saying something like "kanji having to deal with problems" rather than "kanji problem." You would want 問題 close to the end of the phrase. 3. What you said was more like, "Is that a thing having to do with the insertion of things having to do with kanji that deal with problems?" Try something like Quote:
And now I'd like to pose a question to any natives in the crowd right now: Would 漢字使用問題 be permissible as a newspaper-type headline for this topic? I don't know what else to call these, but I'm always trying to perfect my "headline style" Japanese. For example, this comes right out of today's 毎日新聞: Quote:
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毎日ｊｐ - 毎日新聞のニュース・情報サイト *"Chikan" is a subway molester or someone who gropes women. Maybe it can be used in another sense, but I've only ever encountered it meaning "someone feeling up women on the subway." I prefer to keep it "chikan" rather than translating it. It seems like one of those words that ought not be changed. I'm not a translation expert, though. Maybe MMM has some insight as to whether this is the type of word that should be translated or left as "chikan." Maybe for a translated newspaper article to be reprinted somewhere, translating it would be good. But here, or in casual conversation with others who know of Japan, I'd probably leave it as "chikan." Also, my fingers keep trying to type "chicken" rather than "chikan." :\ |
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YouTube - 18-Meter Life-Size Gundam in Odaiba, Japan |
@KyleGoetz:
It seems the discussion has moved on from it, but I see Japanese people use 出来る on a regular basis. I'm sure there's a stylistic rule, but when it comes to young people it might just be to break up the look of the sentence, or a "when I feel like it" thing. Just thought I'd throw my ¥2 in there :) Btw, are they STILL talking about that Gundam?? |
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Even without the full article, it`s clear from the title. Basically, the 来京中 is "while in Tokyo". So "ガンダム像見に来京中" is "While in Tokyo to see the Gundam statue." Newspaper headlines sort of have their own rules, and can be hard to understand if you aren`t familiar with them. ETA; Back on the original topic though. The only time I see 有り難う御座います is on New Years cards... :D 出来る, on the other hand, is used EVERYWHERE in Japan. It`s one of the first compounds kids learn and use on their own, is easy and quick to write, etc. I`d say it`s totally normal to use. 下さい is ok, but 下さる is something I have to say I rarely encounter. If my word isn`t good enough, not being Japanese and all - my husband would rather die than not write 出来る or 下さい in any correspondence. It`s much better to use too much kanji, and in places not so common for a native than too little kanji or writing in hiragana when a native would write in kanji - that is much much more jarring when it comes to style. |
I asked my girlfriend about whether Japanese write 出来る and 下さい in kanji.
She replied - Yes. |
This is an interesting topic. It's not something I've actually thought about before. There certainly are words that do have kanji that I spell out in hiragana simply because that is how I am used to seeing them. And then there are words that I spell out in hiragana because I forgot the kanji for them :D .
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Could it be that your girlfriend just isn't using "correct" style? Maybe I should limit my rule to just formal writing... I mean, I am finding webpages in Japanese stating the rule I've stated, so it's not like it's just one white guy making up rules. There are Japanese people who agree with me. |
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I've never written and will never write 出来る as a verb. It isn't found in newspapers, better magazines or legal papers. In nouns, however, it can be written in kanji. 上出来、出来高, etc. As for 下, it's been explained correctly by the OP. Whether it's written in kanji or not depends on the usage. コーヒを下さい。 コーヒーを持ってきてください。 |
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Also, do you know of a reference (book, manual, etc.) that covers this sort of kanji usage? A style guide or something? Obviously I don't expect something written for non-natives here. I'm perfectly fine with something written for a Japanese audience. |
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