Having problems with the conjugation of Verbs and Adjectives.

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

This is a very good point. Of all the grammar topics in Japanese, particles is by far the most difficult topic to master. Just like prepositions in English is allegedly the hardest part to learn.

In fact that's why I was confused. I mean, I see a conjugations in Japanese 行って, but I don't see a conjugation something like 行っている or 行っても. The te form in itself is a conjugation, but as you know it has countless ways of being used.

[AxBattler]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

There's no "system" other than to learn the rules. Have you ever studied a foreign language before? There's no "trickery" involved. Only practice, practice, practice.

Well, there are instances where mnemonics help, but for grammar, there are more useful for exceptions than rules you can just practice until you get it right.

I had more difficult with the conjugation of adjectives than verbs, because it was a foreign concept to me. You do not conjugate adjectives in English, and while 'gender' and quantity modifies adjective in French, tenses do not.

[korriken]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

This is a very good point. Of all the grammar topics in Japanese, particles is by far the most difficult topic to master. Just like prepositions in English is allegedly the hardest part to learn.

Sweet Irony. I had only occasional problem with particles (as far as I can tell anyway unless there is some sort of super difficult set I haven't seen yet). Only the て form gives me much trouble, and only when reading it.

Prepositions? I can imagine those being tough to a non native speaker. we have so many of them, not to mention some particles change depending on whether the thing being talked about is general or specific.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by korriken

Sweet Irony. I had only occasional problem with particles (as far as I can tell anyway unless there is some sort of super difficult set I haven't seen yet). Only the て form gives me much trouble, and only when reading it.

Prepositions? I can imagine those being tough to a non native speaker. we have so many of them, not to mention some particles change depending on whether the thing being talked about is general or specific.

If you're having problems learning conjugations, I highly doubt you aren't some genius with particles. The wa/ga distinction and ni/(h)e distinction and ni/wo distinction (and the fact that there are tons of particles) makes it, in my opinion, the most difficult. You probably just don't have a way of knowing you're using them wrong. Wa/ga is very hard for a non-native to learn (unless, I assume, their native language is Korean).

I say this not to insult you, but just to point out that you shouldn't rest on your laurels w/r/t particles.

[korriken]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

If you're having problems learning conjugations, I highly doubt you aren't some genius with particles. The wa/ga distinction and ni/(h)e distinction and ni/wo distinction (and the fact that there are tons of particles) makes it, in my opinion, the most difficult. You probably just don't have a way of knowing you're using them wrong. Wa/ga is very hard for a non-native to learn (unless, I assume, their native language is Korean).

I say this not to insult you, but just to point out that you shouldn't rest on your laurels w/r/t particles.

well, going from dictionary form to te form isn't troublesome, but sometimes when im reading i gotta stop for a second and conjugate in reverse to figure out what the base verb is.

but you're probably right, there is probably a lot of particles and uses that I have yet to see, and i simply don't know that I'm messing up. Perhaps I'll do some writing today and post it somewhere to see if I'm messing up and not realizing it.

but is the distinction between wa and ga really that hard? I always thought the distinction between topic and subject to be fairly simple. Something tells me I'm dead wrong.

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by korriken

well, going from dictionary form to te form isn't troublesome, but sometimes when im reading i gotta stop for a second and conjugate in reverse to figure out what the base verb is.

but you're probably right, there is probably a lot of particles and uses that I have yet to see, and i simply don't know that I'm messing up. Perhaps I'll do some writing today and post it somewhere to see if I'm messing up and not realizing it.

but is the distinction between wa and ga really that hard? I always thought the distinction between topic and subject to be fairly simple. Something tells me I'm dead wrong.

After a while you have been reading Japanese material you start understanding how ha and ga work (I never worked with romaji, so I keep writing ha, hopefully it is not wrong lol).
Whether there are some cases where you have to use one or the other, switching them would be a mistake, there are cases where you can use both.

I don't know if it is true that even native speakers have problems, but for sure learners will always face doubts in certain circumstances.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by korriken

well, going from dictionary form to te form isn't troublesome, but sometimes when im reading i gotta stop for a second and conjugate in reverse to figure out what the base verb is.

but you're probably right, there is probably a lot of particles and uses that I have yet to see, and i simply don't know that I'm messing up. Perhaps I'll do some writing today and post it somewhere to see if I'm messing up and not realizing it.

but is the distinction between wa and ga really that hard? I always thought the distinction between topic and subject to be fairly simple. Something tells me I'm dead wrong.

No, it's not so simple. Wa and ga emphasize different parts of the sentence(疑問は残る vs. 疑問が残る), there are times when you cannot use wa but you can use ga (○なにがあったの; ×なにはあったの), there are "special" combinations of wa and ga that you use together (姉さんは背が高い, e.g.), there are times when you convert wa to ga (オレはやるー＞オレがやると言った), etc.

As for particles in general, I own entire books about just particles. Just to list some in reverse alphabetical order: zutu, zo, ze, yori, yo, ya, wa, uchi (referred to in some texts as a particle, but more of a noun in my sense), (t)te, tutu, etc. That's basically U-Z with a couple Ts thrown in.

Good luck, it's very fun to learn these things!

[korriken]

holy crap. >< That would explain a lot.... but i always figures the bigger ones, like Yori to be more along the lines of suffixes added on to change the meaning of a word, much in the same sense as adding -ing to an English word. Those are considered particles too, then? Will have to keep that in mind.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by korriken

holy crap. >< That would explain a lot.... but i always figures the bigger ones, like Yori to be more along the lines of suffixes added on to change the meaning of a word, much in the same sense as adding -ing to an English word. Those are considered particles too, then? Will have to keep that in mind.

Yori is not a noun (distinguish from wake), and it's not a verb conjugation (distinguish from te), nor a preposition (distinguish from naka). It's a particle.