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robhol 04-08-2010 07:17 PM

Couple of minor questions
 
I have two small questions here.

The English word "or". Does this even have a Japanese equivalent? I vaguely seem to remember someone telling me there's no "or" in Japanese and that any "options" are usually just posed as normal questions asked after one another. Is this true?

The Japanese words 時 toki and じかん jikan (kanji currently unknown :p). Both seem to mean time, but I'm not clear on the distinction between them (if any) nor when and where they're appropriate. Are the two terms synonymous or is there a difference between them? What should I use when?

MMM 04-08-2010 07:37 PM

か can be used as "or", but its usage is not exactly the same as English.

時 とき can mean "time" as in "that time I went to Tokyo"

時間 じかん can mean "time" as in "Do you have time to talk now?"

chryuop 04-08-2010 08:16 PM

As MMM said か can be used to translate "or". However this particle it is used to link 2 nouns. I think what you want to know is about linking phrases. Unfortunately at the moment I can think only to a couple of example and yes I would write them as 2 separate phrases. If you write down what you got in mind, maybe it reminds me of something different :)

As per 時 you can translate is "when", it usually help to get less confused.
MMM gave you the kanji of 時間(じかん), which if you get to understand those 2 kanji will make you understand easy the difference.
時=time
間=interval of time.

The role of the second kanji can be more easily understood when you face the hours. 一時 shows "the time when it is 1" so basically 1 o'clock. 一時間 shows an interval of time which lasts 1 hour. Just to help you coz I usually I confuse people when I try to explain something, I give you an example.
一時(いちじ)に食(た)べた。 Ate at 1 o'clock.
一時間(いちじかん)食(た)べている。 Have been eating for 1 hour.

KyleGoetz 04-09-2010 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryuop (Post 807662)
As MMM said か can be used to translate "or". However this particle it is used to link 2 nouns.

Nonsense. か can link verbs just fine:
ヤンキーズがワールドシーリーズに勝つか負けるかとい うと...
If I had to say whether the Yankees will win or lose, ...

chryuop 04-09-2010 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 807697)
Nonsense. か can link verbs just fine:
ヤンキーズがワールドシーリーズに勝つか負けるかとい うと...
If I had to say whether the Yankees will win or lose, ...

Is that a "or"? I have always seen that as question marker in the indirect speech. I read that more like " they will winn? They will lose?...".
At this point even かどうか will become a "or"?
It might be that I have always misunderstood that part of the grammar.

So can I use か to link 2 phrases that are not part of an indirect speech? (you are teaching me something new ty :) ).

robhol 04-09-2010 01:17 PM

I think I get it.. at least.. sort of. Thanks for the answers.

But when referring to "unmeasured" time or the concept of time itself, as in "time is relative", "I don't have time"? What about 時をとまれ, ("Stop (the) time", I guess) are they both usable or do you only use 時 for that?

chryuop 04-09-2010 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robhol (Post 807791)
I think I get it.. at least.. sort of. Thanks for the answers.

But when referring to "unmeasured" time or the concept of time itself, as in "time is relative", "I don't have time"? What about 時をとまれ, ("Stop (the) time", I guess) are they both usable or do you only use 時 for that?

I might be wrong, but I would use more 時間 in that case.

Sashimister 04-09-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robhol (Post 807791)
But when referring to "unmeasured" time or the concept of time itself, as in "time is relative", "I don't have time"?

For "time is relative", you can use both.
For "I don't have time", you can only use 時間.

Quote:

What about 時をとまれ, ("Stop (the) time", I guess) are they both usable or do you only use 時 for that?
You cannot say 時をとまれ as とまる is an intransitive verb. Things can とまる, but you cannot とまる anything. 

We say 時とまれ.

robhol 04-09-2010 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 807797)
For "time is relative", you can use both.
For "I don't have time", you can only use 時間.



You cannot say 時をとまれ as とまる is an intransitive verb. Things can とまる, but you cannot とまる anything. 

We say 時とまれ.

Ah, nice to know. I thought it must be wo since I knew wo to be an object marker and didn't know yo had any particular meaning apart from a "new information" marker... I'd seen it written down both ways, and in spoken (and FAST) Japanese they sound very similar, so.. I didn't really know which was the right one. :D Thanks for clearing it up.

What about toki vs. jikan in this case though?


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