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-   -   換える vs. 変える (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-language-help/35166-%E6%8F%9B%E3%81%88%E3%82%8B-vs-%E5%A4%89%E3%81%88%E3%82%8B.html)

Maxful 12-12-2010 04:32 PM

換える vs. 変える
 
Hi masaegu san, I would like to know what's the difference between 換える (Exchange, Change) and 変える(Change)? :)

masaegu 12-13-2010 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841374)
Hi masaegu san, I would like to know what's the difference between 換える (Exchange, Change) and 変える(Change)? :)

Don't you have a good dictionary?

変える = to change, to alter, to turn, to modify, to reform, etc.

換える = to exchange, to replace, to substitute, to take the place of, etc.

halfthishalfthat 12-13-2010 05:31 AM

To elabourate:

変 - character signifies change, going through a change... simply the change. something was one thing, now it is different.

Perhaps you would say something like...
人生を変える - change life (as in "make a change to human life")

換 - character signifies change from current to something else, exchanging one thing for another, something in place of another.

Perhaps you would say something like...
電車を乗り換える - change trains (as in "ride a different train instead of the current one")

KyleGoetz 12-13-2010 06:23 PM

Well put by the natives. To put it simply, I think you might be able to easily differentiate them if you think of 変 as "morph" and 換 as "swap."

Maxful 12-14-2010 12:06 AM

I think I get it now. For example, if I am talking about changing password, I use 変える. But if I am talking about changing a light bulb, I use 換える. Am I right? :)

masaegu 12-14-2010 01:12 AM

That is correct.

Maxful 12-14-2010 01:46 AM

Thanks for the help, guys. :)

Maxful 12-14-2010 02:43 AM

By the way, for "おしめを取り換える", is it possible to say "おしめを換える" instead?

masaegu 12-14-2010 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841619)
By the way, for "おしめを取り換える", is it possible to say "おしめを換える" instead?

It's more than just possible.

Maxful 12-14-2010 06:06 AM

Thank you, masaegu san. :)

Maxful 12-14-2010 06:40 PM

Hi masaegu san, I have a question regarding ”田中さん待ってでしょう?”. Can I say also ”田中さん待でしょう?”?

masaegu 12-15-2010 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841777)
Hi masaegu san, I have a question regarding ”田中さん待ってでしょう?”. Can I say also ”田中さん待でしょう?”?

What does ”田中さん待ってでしょう?” even mean?

”田中さん待でしょう?” is a valid sentence but I want to make sure you know what it means since you paired it with a nonsensical sentence.

Maxful 12-15-2010 02:45 AM

Hi masaegu san, that sentence was from this dorama "Voice" episode 3. She was telling this guy from her workplace to return home since she figured that this colleague's wife is waiting for him.

Based on the translation from the dorama, it means "Your wife is waiting for you, isn't she?".

The reason why I used "Tanaka" instead of his "wife" is because I couldn't remember how to say "wife" in japanese. I think it is called "奥さん".

The reason why I asked if ”奥さん待ってでしょう?” is correct because that's what she said but of course I could have heard it wrongly, I don't know.

Anyway, I was just surprised that she used "て-form" instead of "Dictionary-form" before "でしょう" so I immediately signed in here to asked which sentence is the correct one.

masaegu 12-15-2010 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841816)
Hi masaegu san, that sentence was from this dorama "Voice" episode 3. She was telling this guy from her workplace to return home since she figured that this colleague's wife is waiting for him.

Based on the translation from the dorama, it means "Your wife is waiting for you, isn't she?".

The reason why I used "Tanaka" instead of his "wife" is because I couldn't remember how to say "wife" in japanese. I think it is called "奥さん".

The reason why I asked if ”奥さん待ってでしょう?” is correct because that's what she said but of course I could have heard it wrongly, I don't know.

Anyway, I was just surprised that she used "て-form" instead of "Dictionary-form" before "でしょう" so I immediately signed in here to asked which sentence is the correct one.

Sorry but as I said above, 待ってでしょう makes no sense.

Maxful 12-15-2010 03:33 AM

Thanks for the clarification, masaegu san. So "奥さん待つでしょう" stands for "Your wife is waiting for you, isn't it?"?

Also, that colleague of him keep saying "But, but, but ...." so she told him to stop saying that and so she said "でもじゃない” (Don't "but"). Does ""でもじゃない” make sense to you?

masaegu 12-15-2010 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841825)
Thanks for the clarification, masaegu san. So "奥さん待つでしょう" stands for "Your wife is waiting for you, isn't it?"?

No. That would be 奥さん待ってるでしょう.

Quote:

Also, that colleague of him keep saying "But, but, but ...." so she told him to stop saying that and so she said "でもじゃない” (Don't "but"). Does ""でもじゃない” make sense to you?
I don't get it. Did someone actually say "But, but, but ...." in a Japanese drama?

Maxful 12-15-2010 04:01 AM

The reason why he said "but" was because she kept asking him to return home but he felt that he has unfinished work to deal with and that it wasn't right to leave her alone in the workplace so when she told him to leave, he kept saying "but" as in (but what about you?), so she told him to stop saying "but" and go home to his wife. Sorry for my poor explanation.

Anyway, since you said that the correct saying is "奥さん待ってでしょう" then I am sure that I was the one who made the mistake. I probably missed out on "る".

Thanks for the help, masaegu san. I always feel that this every little things are very important to take note of.

Maxful 12-15-2010 04:08 AM

One more thing, masaegu san. Does "それじゃ” stand for "Good bye" also? My guess is that it is a casual way to say "bye" but I could be wrong. Just wanna make sure of the usage. :)

masaegu 12-15-2010 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841831)
The reason why he said "but" was because she kept asking him to return home but he felt that he has unfinished work to deal with and that it wasn't right to leave her alone in the workplace so when she told him to leave, he kept saying "but" as in (but what about you?), so she told him to stop saying "but" and go home to his wife. Sorry for my poor explanation.

Anyway, since you said that the correct saying is "奥さん待ってでしょう" then I am sure that I was the one who made the mistake. I probably missed out on "る".

Thanks for the help, masaegu san. I always feel that this every little things are very important to take note of.

My point was: Did someone actually said in English "But but but"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 841833)
One more thing, masaegu san. Does "それじゃ” stand for "Good bye" also? My guess is that it is a casual way to say "bye" but I could be wrong. Just wanna make sure of the usage. :)

Yes. In actual pronunciation, though, the last syllable is elongated 95% of the time to それじゃあ.

それじゃあ is the colloquial pronunciation of それでは, which also means "Good bye." The following expressions all mean that.

じゃあ
それじゃあ
それでは
それではまた

Unlike what they seem to teach outside of Japan, almost no one says さようなら in Japan.

Maxful 12-15-2010 04:48 AM

Thank you, masaegu san. :)

Anyway, regarding the "but ... but ...", most people will not say that, of course. He said that only because he was deeply in thoughts and was wondering if he should leave her alone in the workplace.

All I can think of is something like that (especially when one is suprised or shocked):

Brian: James passed away yesterday.

Kewell: Are you sure? But .... but I just saw him 2 days ago.


P.S. Forgive me for the poor example, my English is not good.

Maxful 12-15-2010 06:43 AM

By the way, masaegu san. How should I say "Once you give up, your life is over" in Japanese?

KyleGoetz 12-15-2010 05:56 PM

I just want to take a crack at it before a native steps in and answers. Couple guesses:
諦めたばかりで人生が終わった。
諦めると人生が終わった。

Maxful 12-16-2010 02:06 AM

Thanks KyleGoetz san. :)

masaegu 12-16-2010 02:33 AM

人生諦めたら終わりだ。


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