Help with transcribing names
 

Hi,

I am trying to make a birthday gift card for a Japan-loving friend of mine, and need help with Japanese writing.
I am trying to write the following 5 names in Japanese, vertically (I put hyphens between the syllables to make the pronunciation clearer):

Ke-ren
Shpil-sher
Mo-rag ('rag' pronounced like 'rug' in english)
Tze-pe-le-witz ('witz' pronounced like 'vitch')
Coo-per

Thanks!
Mike.

We cannot type vertically here. Can you take horizontal?

This might be a silly question, but can I take the horizontal writing and 'flip' it myself to make it vertical? If so, is there a specific way go about it?

Anyway, horizontal is also much appreciated.

Thank you!

There is a way if you are already familiar with Japanese writing. You don't really "flip" it, though. I will try to explain that later.

Ke-ren カレン
Shpil-sher　シュピルシャー
Mo-rag 　モーラッグ
Tze-pe-le-witz 　ツェペルヴィッチ
Coo-per　　クーパー

With Keren, write it like:
カ
レ
ン

You don't rotate the letters in any way; Just rearrange them vertically.

The horizintal bars that you see will be written vertically in vertical writing.
ー becomes I like the upper-case "I" without the little horizontal strokes at top and bottom.

The difficult part would be the smal letters that you see in the three names in the middle. I will post this now to see how the Japanese letters appear in large fonts and try to explain what I have to from there.

OK, you see the small letters ュ,ャ,ッ,ェ and ィ used in the three names in the middle? When writing them vertically, you need to change their positioning. In horizontal, they are placed at the bottom just as the normal letters (except the horizontal bar). In horizontal, the base line is at the bottom of the letters just as in European languages.

In vertical writing, the base line is at the right-hand side of the letters. Let me show you using Shpil-sher.

シ
ュ
ピ
ル
シ
ャ
|

Simply move the two small letters a little to the right so that all the letters are lined up on the imaginary vertical line at the right.

Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you very much for your help.
One final question, though. She is an artist, and I want the lettering to appear calligarphic. Since I am printing this in a graphics software, is there a specific font you recommend using?

Mike.

Thing is I am not very PC-literate. I do know that many Japanese girls like the one named Lovely Capsule nowadays, though.

All the letters used to write those names above are called Katakana and they are very simple with much fewer strokes compared to Kanji, the Chinese characters. So, you can choose from more fonts than when writing using all the three writing systems of Japanese (Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji).

Sorry I'm not being of much help in this regard. Hope some other members can chip in with recommendations.

I am ever so grateful, thank you!

I don't think you would be well-advised to make katakana more calligraphic. The structure of the characters don't really lend themselves well to it.

But if you just want to make it "artsy," Lovely Capsule does look nice: Lovely Capsules Font | dafont.com

You might check these out if you want something that is a bit more handwritey: 12 Japanese Handwriting Style Fonts. Free download! | Jayhan Loves Design & Japan

Ke-ren 可憐　　　　　　　　
Shpil-sher　　　　蹴蒜奢亜
Mo-rag 猛羅愚
Tze-pe-le-witz 絶蔽流美地
Coo-per　　　　　　　空波亜

Shpil-sher　朱飛流紗亞

炉酢戸美胃布　= Roast Beef! LOLZ! Your kanji translations are fun ^_^

Now that is the way to scare someone away from using Japanese! ;)

Whoa...
I think I might use both options :)

Thank you very much for you help.

BTW, is there a significant difference between the two version of Shpil-sher offered to me?

Yeah. The one you likely dislike for looking "plain" and "not exotic enough" is more "correct." The one with all the complex characters looks really Chinese but isn't Chinese. It would be if I wrote the dog name "Fido" as "Phydeaux." Same sound, different writing, and both are "correct" spellings of a sound but only one is considered "correct" by 90% of the population.

No offense to tipsygypsy of course! I only put "correct" in quotation marks because I don't like calling anything correct when dealing with language since "correct" is only "what most people say is correct."

Neither has any meaning, though. They both are phonetic. The complicated looking ones ostensibly have meaning, but it's like gibberish meaning. Well, except for "Karen," which does mean "pitiful" there.

I see, and is there also a difference between the two Kanji alternatives for Shpil-sher?

Take Tipsygypsy's translations with a shaker of salt.
This is your correct answer:

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/japa...tml#post853159

I know you never meant to offend me. and I don't think karen means pitiful. 可憐( karen ) is a word to describe the beauty of moment which holds a bit of sadness within. Just like a flower blown in the wind. Petals are blown away, but that moment is beautiful, and that moment also is sad. I consider that kind of beautiful and fragile moment 可憐　( karen )

@tipsygypsy

Are you always going to write foreign names in kanji if people ask how their names are written in Japanese?

If so, I will never post in this type of thread again because it will make me look like a fool.

Yes I am. There are some names I can't write in kanji tho.

we all know you are never fool. or at least I know you are not fool by reading the things you have posted.

I strongly suggest you reconsider, per the warnings you have already received. There are places to play on Japan Forum, but this isn't one of them.

Out of curiosity is it ever "correct" to write a foriegn name in Kanji? I was always told foriegn names like Karen or Mandeep or Francois were supposed to be written in Katakana . . . If it isn't "correct", per se, to use the Kanji is there ever a circumstance where it may be accepted or prefered to use kanji for a foriegn name?

You'll get different answers from different people, including natives. masaegu is on the "always katakana" camp. Other posters in the past, such as NagoYankee and SashiMister have been as well. I know MMM (who is not a native, but a very highly skilled non-native) is in the "only katakana" camp as well.

For what it's worth, I had a professor of history at Japanese university who declared it was acceptable for a foreigner to have a kanji name. Those born with kanji names (e.g., Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese) can as well. What is interesting is that foreign-born Japanese are not supposed to. So if you're Hamasaki born in Tokyo, you are 浜崎. But if you are born in Hawaii, you are ハマサキ. My own opinion (for what little it is worth) is below in this post.

Legally, if you become a Japanese citizen, you have to take a kanji name for official documents. Some foreigners who do this merely transcribe their names into kanji. A famous one in some circles is David Aldwinkle, who now has the name 有道出人 which is read "Arudo Debito." But this law isn't the case for non-citizens who reside in Japan (like me when I went to university in Tokyo).

The caveat is that Japanese people will look at such a kanji compound and WTF. So it's advisable that you not do it.

To me, the correct answer (and one that incorporates the various opinions) is that it is:
(1) linguistically possible to do so, but
(2) not socially possible because the name will be tough/impossible to read, it will probably look very silly, and many will just think you're dumb/a weeaboo.

The best answer you're going to get for your actual question, then, is "katakana is always the right choice, with the caveat that kanji-using countries' people can keep their kanji names—so if you happen to get a Chinese name, you can use it in Japan, too—and immigrant citizens can kanji-fy their names.

Thanks for the detailed answer, that really helped to clear things up :)