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BARRON'S JAPANESE Grammar Second Edition -
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
ga
subject maker Ga marks what Japanese call the grammatical subject of a sentence. Think of the subject in the following two ways; ・First, in neutral descriptions of observable actions or situations ・Second, for special emphasis, to distinguish a particular person or thing from all others. ・When an interrogative pronoun is used as the subject of a sentence, Ga must always be used too. object maker O usually marks the object. But ga marks the object of certain non-action verbs and certain verbal adjectives and adjectival nouns. Examples Yoko san wa, eigo ga wakarimasu./ Yoko understands English. wa - topic maker eigo - English ga - obj.maker wakarimasu - understands Nihongo ga dekimasu ka./ Can you speak Japanese? Hon ga hoshii desu. / I want a book. Meri san wa, tenisu ga jozu desu./ Mary is good at tennis. ///////////////////////////////// o direct object maker Examples Senshu sono hon o yomimashita. /I read that book last week. Jon san wa eiga o mimashita. /John saw a movie. //////////////////////////////// So, O marks the object of action verbs. Ga marks the object of certain non-action verbs. 
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06-28-2011, 01:36 AM
I'm glad to see this thread heading in the right direction. I couldn't figure out what "go" and "ga" had to do with one another (I thought for a second that "go" was like "go"han's "go", like MMM, too.
At any rate, I think that が and を are similar in their usage. The problem with most of the examples so far is that the were dealing with adjectives. ie: 私は犬が好きです While that translates into "I like dogs", don't let English's "like" verb deceive you... 好き is not a verb, but an adjective. That is a problem I have noticed with textbooks and teachers who teach Japanese to English speakers. That will usually be one of the first, if not the first grammar point. While I think there are cases where you can use を with adjectives like that, you'd be dancing close the the fire if I'm not mistaken. ex) 私はそばを好きです。 This sounds kind of weird and incomplete when compared with 私はそばが好きです。 If, however, you were to elaborate a bit and say: ex) 私はそばを死ぬほど好きです。 Then I think it would work. Otherwise you might be eating "dead soba". But the dead-ness is what's appealing to you. Usually, though, I think it's a better idea to use が with adjectives like that. I think it's also safe to say that が puts a bit more emphasis on things. コーヒーを飲みたい。--> I want to drink coffee. コーヒーが飲みたい。--> I want to drink coffee. (no exceptions) I'll try to elaborate more in another post if I have time.
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06-28-2011, 02:30 AM
Okay, so I think I've figured out the problem. を, the particle, has quite a few uses... but in this case we are talking about one specific use (and in this use it can be interchangeable with が). Keep in mind, however, that there will be a change in nuance when they are "interchangeable". In other cases, one will replace the other depending on the kinds of verbs used.
The use of を which we are focusing on is that in which it is a "direct object marker", to use a textbook phrase.The problem is that most of us are thinking in English terms when we're playing with Japanese... A couple examples of the usage of the を particle: 1) 私は社会を勉強している。 (I'm studying social studies) 2) 野村さんはやっとWiiを買った。 (Mr. Nomura finally bought a Wii) Now as English speakers, we are all likely to think like this: Because を is used as a "direct object" marker, then I can take any direct object in an English sentence and slap an を in front of it thusly: 私はボブの電話番号を分かる。→私は電話番号が分かる。 Since 電話番号 (or Bob's phone number is the direct object of 分かる, or what you know) is the "direct object" in English, we are likely to use を with it instead of が in this situation, even though が is better. Another situation that can get you into trouble is this one: 私は彼女を電話した→私は彼女に電話した。 Again, since we are English speakers, all we see is me calling my girlfriend (or my direct object)... where in Japanese I think it's more of a transferring motion, if you will. So に is used instead of を. I'm sure there are more examples that could be brought up, like 誰々と会う, but my point is that we are applying our English to Japanese. That is something that Native speakers don't have to deal with. My approach to dealing with this is to listen to as much Japanese as possible to help build an ear for what "sounds" good or not. It's like dissonance in music. If you hear something that clashes it will pop out at you immediately. Back to the topic: を vs が Like in my last post ~が/をのみたい... for 動詞+たい you can use either one, although there is a slight difference in nuance. Also, for "potential", as I think the textbooks call it... it's a very similar situation. Both アルコールがたくさん飲める or アルコールをたくさん飲める should work, but there will be a difference in nuance. I feel that を would be stronger. When I think about it though, I don't hear ～をできる often (or at all as far as I can recall). I'm not sure about している/してある... If I think really hard I might be able to come up with a couple of examples for each... but I think が would be the safe choice if you are in doubt. As a disclaimer, I'd like to point out that in "real" Japanese people don't constantly say "私は" over and over like that. Actually speaking/writing like that in Japanese isn't natural. I think this is an example of "negative transfer" when going from English to Japanese, by the way (all of this). The worst offenders, in my opinion, are the textbooks. By showing a couple of examples of how to use を and saying "direct object" and other fancy grammar-related words they are inducing errors on customers. Also, I'm aware that the OP stated he or she is a beginner and that a lot of this might be too much to take in, but hopefully it will serve as a reference for anyone else reading. I always wish that someone had set me straight when I first started Japanese... I spent a long time un-learning a whole lot of misinformation years into my development. I'd also like to point out that I doubt my post is error-free... so if anyone wants to chime in on mistakes in my Japanese I'd appreciate it if you did so.
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06-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Quote:
One of my professors explained this by saying that when you 分かる something, it's more like the subject has been divided up and sorted into its proper storage containers in the brain. So even the action itself can be thought of as intransitive (namely, that the material has been sorted out, rather than your brain sorting the material). Now, I don't have a dictionary on hand that explains the etymology of 分かる, so I can't say for certain if that's actually how the word's usage for "to understand" came about. But it doesn't strike me as anything more than a metaphorical meaning that became widespread over time, given that the kanji used for the verb indicates a cutting or splitting or dividing.
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06-29-2011, 01:01 AM
I have to be honest with you Kyle... when I first learned about transitive/intransitive verbs, I was in a high school Japanese class. Ironic as it may seem, most people in the class (including myself) had never heard of it before... so the whole concept required a long-winded explanation from the teacher.
While I'm sure you can come up with a bunch of examples of transitive/intransitive verbs that are different from each other in English offhand, but they don't really match up well with their Japanese counterparts. Not only that, I think that English's "intransitive" sounds a bit like Japanese's "passive". It may just be me... but I think these concepts require a whole lot of time to understand. That kind of time might be better spent just exposing yourself to the language. I know I'm confusing things, but that's kind of my point. I'm sure some people benefit from all that kind of explanation, but when it comes to everyday "quick-draw" conversation, you often don't have time to think about that stuff, so you just have to say what sounds right in that situation...
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