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から / からだ / からです

Does anyone know what type-of-speech does から belong to ?

Are all of these grammatically correct sentences:

1) お金がなかったから

2) お金がなかったからだ

3) お金がなかったからです

According to A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, から, when used to indicate a reason for something, is a conjunction.

As for the sentences you wrote, I'm not a native speaker, but they look fine to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacerier (Post 880411)

Are all of these grammatically correct sentences:

1) お金がなかったから

2) お金がなかったからだ

3) お金がなかったからです

All are 100% acceptable in daily convos. In Japanese schools, however, you would be corrected if you used 1) as it lacks a verb (or an auxiliary verb).

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacerier (Post 880411)

They are all perfectly cromulent. The first is a sentence fragment (so not technically "grammatically correct") but you'll hear it all the time in conversation. The second is a full sentence in plain form. The third is a full sentence in polite form.

I have been reliably informed that ので sounds nicer than から, and is particularly favored in writing.

Btw, is the だ and です allowed after ので ?

2) お金がなかったのでだ

3) お金がなかったのでです

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacerier (Post 880524)

Btw, is the だ and です allowed after ので ?

2) お金がなかったのでだ

3) お金がなかったのでです

No, you can't.

Ok, thanks all for the help =D

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 880549)

No, you can't.

ほんとだ！

Kyle先生、これ、どうしてですか？(◎o◎)

(1)お金がなかったからだ/です…correct

(2)お金がなかったためだ/です…correct

(3)お金がなかったのでだ/です…incorrect

「ため」「から」「ので」are all conjunctions that show a 'reason', and why is the 3rd sentence↑ incorrect?
「お金がなかったので。」is acceptable in a conversation, no?
I didn't notice the difference until I read this thread.
ふしぎです～。

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumippi (Post 880615)

「ため」「から」「ので」are all conjunctions that show a 'reason', and why is the 3rd sentence↑ incorrect?
「お金がなかったので。」is acceptable in a conversation, no?
I didn't notice the difference until I read this thread.
ふしぎです～。

「ため」「から」「ので」 certainly serve a conjunctive function but none of them are conjunctions. 「ため」 is a noun and the other two are particles.

「お金がなかったので。」 is acceptable only in casual speech. In non-casual speech, it should be followed by a phrase expressing a result or effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumippi (Post 880615)

ため is a noun, so that's why ため is OK. As for からだ being OK but のでだ not being OK, I have no answer. I've always wondered if maybe ので has its roots in の＋です since inserting のです after a sentence gives a slight "explanatory" feel to what you're saying. 公園が見つけられたのです！

But that's the mere musing of a crazy non-native speaker. :)

Edit I wasn't completely off the mark! Checking my dictionary:

Quote:

接続助詞。体言の代用をする助詞ノとニテの転のデとが結合したもの。転じてンデとも。活用語の連体形に付く

So its roots are actually の＋にて＞のにて＞ので I guess. Unfortunately, it destroys my theory as to what makes ので behave differently than から in that のでです is weird but からです is not.

Edit 2 Well, actually it turns out I'm at least as creative as Japanese linguists! From this book: Topics in constraint-based grammar ... - Takao Gunji - Google Books

Quote:

It has been argued whether no-de is a concatenization of the nominalizer no and the case particle de or the nominalizer no and the auxiliary verb da, which makes a nominal preceding its statement. . . . There is still dispute about which is the right analysis.

Put me in the のだ camp!

え！「ため」is a noun! あ～～。(*_*)

Thank you very much, masaegu-sensei and Kyle-sensei...

I remembered learning in high school something like 'が、の、を、に、へ、と、より、から、で、や」as 格助詞case particles...

Oh... then「ので」is not a case particle? So, if「で」in「ので」is originally 「です」＝「だ」, then if I say 「の」+「で」＋「だ」or 「の」+「で」+「です」, 「だ（＝です）」will be redundant, so 「のでだ」 is impossible, right? It'd be like 「のです＋です」or「のだ+だ」. This makes sense to me... because 「お金がなかったのです」is fine.

難しい。。。こんがらがってきた。I'm getting more confused. （^_^;）
I'll have to check my Japanese Grammar textbook from high school. 笑。

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumippi (Post 880925)

The dictionary lists ので as a 接続助詞. This is a conjunctive particle (the English equivalent is just a "conjunction"), not a case particle. Strictly speaking, a case particle marks grammatical case/function within a sentence. ので does not mark a grammatical case. Case means subject (が), topic (は), direct object (を), indirect object (へ／に), location (に／で), etc.

It's a bit tricky to talk in English about case particles since English has almost no case system left (so many readers on JF, despite being native English speakers, have no idea what we're talking about). The only real case we have anymore is the possessive case (sumippi -> sumippi's [post]). The rest we basically do with sentence order and prepositions (so you could say prepositions are almost 接続助詞 for English).

In modern Japanese, a list of conjunctive particles includes: 「ば」「と」「ても（でも）」「けれど（けれども）」「が」「のに」「ので」「から」「し」「て（で）」接続助詞とは - コトバンク

Quote:

せつぞく‐じょし【接続助詞】

助詞の種類の一。用言や用言に準ずるものに付いて、下にくる用言や用言に準ずるものに続け、前後の文（または文節）の意味上の関係を示す助詞。現代語では、「ば」「と」「ても（でも）」「けれど（けれども）」「が」「のに」「ので」「から」「し」「て（で）」など、古語では、「ば」「とも」「ど」「ども」「が」「に」「を」「て」など。

But now I'm just rambling. I'm merely an amateur linguist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 880971)

ああ～！わかりました、「ので」は、「接続助詞」ですね。（高校で習ったのに、キレイに忘れていました。）それで、「のでです」「のでだ」は、やっぱりだめですね～。

「格case」は、大学でドイツ語やラテン語とった時にablat ive奪格とかdative与格とかaccusative対格とかやりました・� �・と言ってもこれもすっかり忘れてますけど・・・。� �^_^;）

ご丁寧に、どうも有難うございました～。いつもお世話になります…<m(__)m>