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epostl 11-26-2011 12:22 PM

Help with word / phrase
 
Hi everyone! New to the forum, and I have a little request for help. To give some background, I'm an artist working on some interior pieces for a hotel in Norway. My work plays with the interaction of meanings in images vs. meanings in words.

My question for the forum is this: In English, the word 'delicate' can be used to mean brittle or vulnerable (like an ecosystem), as well as to mean, somewhat archaically, a choice food (like eel or oysters). Does an equivalent or similar word or phrase exist in Japanese, carrying a similar double meaning?

Many thanks in advance!

masaegu 11-27-2011 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epostl (Post 888219)
Hi everyone! New to the forum, and I have a little request for help. To give some background, I'm an artist working on some interior pieces for a hotel in Norway. My work plays with the interaction of meanings in images vs. meanings in words.

My question for the forum is this: In English, the word 'delicate' can be used to mean brittle or vulnerable (like an ecosystem), as well as to mean, somewhat archaically, a choice food (like eel or oysters). Does an equivalent or similar word or phrase exist in Japanese, carrying a similar double meaning?

Many thanks in advance!

I do not really understand your question even after reading it three times and that may be why no one has responded so far. Words with double meanings are not all that rare either in English or Japanese. There is nothing so special about it.

Can you expand on what you are trying to accomplish? A couple of more examples might help get responses, too.

epostl 11-27-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 888252)
I do not really understand your question even after reading it three times and that may be why no one has responded so far. Words with double meanings are not all that rare either in English or Japanese. There is nothing so special about it.

Can you expand on what you are trying to accomplish? A couple of more examples might help get responses, too.

Thanks masaegu for letting me know the question wasn't clear. I'll try to describe my image, and then the verbal double meaning I'm looking for.

Broadly, the piece deals with the clash of globalized vs indigenous culture. The image is of a part woman, part sea creature, in an angelic pose, being plucked up by a pair of chopsticks (presumably by a giant hand, out of frame). Behind her and around her are patterns and markings from coastal African tribes, containing references to tribal maritime culture and history.

The word or phrase I'm looking for here would be incorporated as a very commercial-looking title, as if advertising a product (i.e. "Delicacy"). Its function will be to connect the ideas of food / flavor / taste / consumption with the notion of something rare, fragile, and exhaustible.

So I guess my question breaks into two parts, the first being: is there a Japanese word for "delicacy" or "delicate" that carries the same double meaning as the English word?-- that is, a word or phrase that can be used to describe both a choice food, and a condition of fragility or scarcity / costliness.

Secondarily, if no such equivalent exists, perhaps there is a phrase or word that speaks more generally to the relationship between fragility / exhaustibility, and desirability / flavor?

Thanks, Leera23, for the dictionary link. I've consulted this and other dictionaries, but still find it difficult to know which word will contain the kind of double-meaning that resonates with the native ear.

Much appreciative of any suggestions from fluent speakers!

masaegu 11-27-2011 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epostl (Post 888278)
Thanks masaegu for letting me know the question wasn't clear. I'll try to describe my image, and then the verbal double meaning I'm looking for.

Broadly, the piece deals with the clash of globalized vs indigenous culture. The image is of a part woman, part sea creature, in an angelic pose, being plucked up by a pair of chopsticks (presumably by a giant hand, out of frame). Behind her and around her are patterns and markings from coastal African tribes, containing references to tribal maritime culture and history.

The word or phrase I'm looking for here would be incorporated as a very commercial-looking title, as if advertising a product (i.e. "Delicacy"). Its function will be to connect the ideas of food / flavor / taste / consumption with the notion of something rare, fragile, and exhaustible.

So I guess my question breaks into two parts, the first being: is there a Japanese word for "delicacy" or "delicate" that carries the same double meaning as the English word?-- that is, a word or phrase that can be used to describe both a choice food, and a condition of fragility or scarcity / costliness.

Secondarily, if no such equivalent exists, perhaps there is a phrase or word that speaks more generally to the relationship between fragility / exhaustibility, and desirability / flavor?

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

To the best of my knowledge (and I am a native Japanese-speaker), a Japanese word that could be used like "delicate/delicacy" in English for your particular purpose would not exist. If one existed, I can assure you that it would be a word that over 99% of us would not know existed.

The best alternative word that I could think of would be 繊細, which is pronounced "sensai". This word means "delicate", "delicacy", "slender", "slenderness", etc. and its implication borders on "fragile". And it is used to describe the rather light taste of an eel as you said.

Japanese tend to like things that are 繊細 in general.

epostl 11-27-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 888252)
I do not really understand your question even after reading it three times and that may be why no one has responded so far. Words with double meanings are not all that rare either in English or Japanese. There is nothing so special about it.

Can you expand on what you are trying to accomplish? A couple of more examples might help get responses, too.

Thanks masaegu for letting me know the question wasn't clear. I'll try to describe my image, and then the verbal double meaning I'm looking for.

Broadly, the piece deals with the clash of globalized vs indigenous culture. The image is of a part woman, part sea creature, in an angelic pose, being plucked up by a pair of chopsticks (presumably by a giant hand, out of frame). Behind her and around her are patterns and markings from coastal African tribes, containing references to tribal maritime culture and history.

The word or phrase I'm looking for here would be incorporated as a very commercial-looking title, as if advertising a product (i.e. "Delicacy"). Its function will be to connect the ideas of food / flavor / taste / consumption with the notion of something rare, fragile, and exhaustible.

So I guess my question breaks into two parts, the first being: is there a Japanese word for "delicacy" or "delicate" that carries the same double meaning as the English word?-- that is, a word or phrase that can be used to describe both a choice food, and a condition of fragility or scarcity / costliness.

Secondarily, if no such equivalent exists, perhaps there is a phrase or word that speaks more generally to the relationship between fragility / exhaustibility, and desirability / flavor?

Thanks, Leera23, for the dictionary link. I've consulted this and other dictionaries, but still find it difficult to know which word will contain the kind of double-meaning that resonates with the native ear.

Much appreciative of any suggestions from fluent speakers!

masaegu 11-27-2011 01:28 PM

Forgot to mention something.

The only drawback of 繊細 for your purpose is that while it can describe as an adjective the delicate, light taste of certain food items, it cannot refer to the food itself as a noun the way the word "delicacy" can.

epostl 11-27-2011 01:30 PM

Thank you masaegu! I was suspecting it might be that one, actually. One question: when you say that 'sensai' borders on 'fragile'... can it describe something as being easily destroyed or lost?

masaegu 11-27-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epostl (Post 888292)
Thank you masaegu! I was suspecting it might be that one, actually. One question: when you say that 'sensai' borders on 'fragile'... can it describe something as being easily destroyed or lost?

Yes. It can describe a broad range of objects, both tangible and intangible, including human emotions

epostl 11-27-2011 02:13 PM

Perfect! I'm much obliged.


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