日本語を分かる者へ
 

There are so many posts asking for "translation to romaji" and I am kind of wondering all your feelings on this.

I basically come here to lend a hand to legit people who are trying to learn Japanese, and understand we have all levels of learners, more beginners than advanced, but that is OK.

But I am started to feel aprehensive about translating or helping into romaji. Something about it seems...well, unhelpful. Japanese people don't use romaji to write Japanese (except in commercials, shop signs, etc.) so I am questioning if it is a good idea here...and that's why I am soliciting your opinions.

ローマジで教えてもいいですかね、それか、ちゃんとひ らがな（プラス漢字）でした方が助かるんですかね。

よろしく。

Well sometimes it's ok... but not when someone really want to learn the language. Its more destructive then constructive. But for people who don't real intend to learn the language is not really hurting them.. becasue (as I see it) its something that they can't/won't comprehend.... But I feel that if someone really has there hearts set on Japanese. I use hiragana... though though text thats harder then when you sit down with someone and teach them...

One other advantage to romaji, is when you have a text based format that cant decode Japanese (Yahoo, G-mail, etc.) My friends and myself can't use any kana or kanji when emailing. other wise it ends up all gibberish. So we have use romaji...

well thats my thoughts any how..:D

I hadn't thought about those that don't have Japanese access on thier computer, so in that case, it really makes sense.

I am not worried as much about people not trying to learn the language as people looking for free translation ... because I don't know how it will be used in the future.

Some people actually study Japanese using romaji. Some even excel in it. This is just one of the many ways that people learn Japanese. And if they feel comfortable using them, so why not.

Because it's a crutch. It doesn't take that long to learn Hiragana. Ten days if you're a quick learner, a month if you're not. Japanese is written in JAPANESE. Not romanized letters! Romaji can even be detrimental to learning real Japanese due to particles, silent vowels, long vowels, and so on -- many of which are written improperly in romaji. For example, "Tokyo" actually has two extra letters when it's spelled in Japanese - とうきょう, not ときょ. Anyone who won't/can't learn Kana strikes me as someone who isn't serious at all about learning Japanese.

You know, a lot of Japanese learned English using katakana. And we know where that leads...

I tend to agree with this thinking, though I still haven't decided how to deal with newbie "teach me now" types.

Hiragana is not that hard. A part of me says, if you have dedicated enough time to learn Hiragana, then you are probably a committed student of Japanese. If you can't do that much, then you never will be.

Maybe I have decided.

copied it from a dictionary. I don;t know which is used for what..
残虐 【ざんぎゃく】 (adj-na,n) cruelty, brutality, (P)
残忍 【ざんにん】 (adj-na,n) cruelty, atrocity, brutality, (P)
蛮行 【ばんこう】 (n) act of barbarity, brutality, barbarism, (P)
強暴 【きょうぼう】 (adj-na,n) brutality
惨酷 【ざんこく】 (adj-na,n) atrocity, cruelty, brutality
獣性 【じゅうせい】 (n) brutality, animal nature

I never bother reading past the "in romanji plzzzzz" in 90% of the translate this threads. Asking for it in Romaji says to me that the person asking for the translation isn`t attempting to learn Japanese at all. They just want a quick sentence for a sig or the like. It`s a waste of time to bother with the translation.

If someone learns better in romaji - good for them. But they`re going to HAVE to learn to read *Japanese* eventually, as that`s pretty much the only way they`ll encounter real Japanese. If they can`t be bothered to learn enough to convert a regular sentence into romaji on their own, how serious can they be?

時間の無駄だと思う。真面目にやってると思えない。ど っかの板でかっこよく見せるためだけにやってるのなら 、どうせ見てるやつだって分からないだろう・・・
最近頼んでるやつほとんどDQNだし

Basically, whether it's for their signature, graffiti or simply something for them to spread across their chest, it doesn't bothers me with all these romaji request stuff. As long as they are comfortable using them, it's fine by me.

Although, that doesn't mean I am encouraging them to use romaji at will. I believe that we are in no position to tell them not to. They are free to ask and seek out anything that they want. And like everyone said, many are simply not serious learners of Japanese. They just want the meaning or a quick translation of a word or two.

It is simply, either you want to help them or not. If you don't, then all you simply have to do is to ignore them. Period.

僕はどうでもヘキです。もし皆さんが手伝ってあげれば 、僕もそうします。もしそうじゃなければ、もし皆さん がそう言った求めを無視すると、僕もそうするつもりで す。

僕は本気で日本語の勉強したい人を助けたいから、もう ローマジをやめようかなと思っている。

それはそうね。じゃ、本気で日本語の勉強したい人を教 えりましょうよ。

I'm sorry, 「訓迪」?

I agree, you need to learn Hiragana in order to learn Japanese^^ Plus, it's a change, not writing in western letters. I think every learner should learn them at first. But, I also agree with the fact that the decision is up to the 'helper' who sees the thread whether to answer or not.

My bad ... －＿－；；

I'm new to the boards, and I'm looking for a supplemental experience, and hopefully to meet some nice online folks. I've been studying for years, yet my Japanese hasn't progressed much due to no use, or just plain mis-use (i.e. thousands of tattoo, signature, and other stupid translations I'm asked for that could be easily looked up online). I have my hiragana down to a T, and it's the first thing I hammer in to students when I tutor them (I only tutor low level, sorry, I'm not that great). Due to the fact that I could barely read 60% of the kanji posted in this thread before this post, and translate maybe 30% of them in to an English word, I think I'm in need of help.

Long story short, bring on the kana/kanji. (and maybe furigana?)

Welcome! Good to have you in!

Thanks, looking forward to communicating purely in kana/kanji soon.

僕はローマジを使う人がやめないと思っている。There's always going to people who don't have enough commitment to learn Hiragana, thinking that Romaji is enough to fall back on -- when in reality, it's hardly a step towards fluency.

Also.. as a side "question": Why did you use 者 in the title, instead of 人？ Is it more formal or something.. ?

Yes. Though in retrospect, 「方」　would have been better than 「者」. I think it was the end of a long day when I first posted.

There is no way to learn Japanese properly without learning the written language.

ふ　is not FU and is not HU.

ら、り、る、れ、ろ　is not RA, RI, RU, RE, RO

With a little practice, you can SEE the different pronunciation.

Long vowels, small っ , these are all things that must be learned to be spoked and heard.

Ugh.. that's one of the things I don't get about Japanese: So many words for one thing (人、者、and 方). Well, depending on the language you're coming from, RA, RI, RU, RE, and RO are pretty close. I know that, in Spanish, the Rs are close. The English R is just an ugly letter.

I'm glad that my mom made me bilingual with Spanish.. It gives an advantage to Japanese vowel pronunciation over a regular English speaker. :)

And English doesn't have a lot of words for the same thing?

"Let's meet up." "Let's get together." "Let's catch up." "Let's hang out."

It drives Japanese people just as crazy. Everything is "up" "down" "out" "in"...

I think it's easier for us learning Japanese than the other way around.

I hear japanese is easier for native english speakers than it is the other way around, but it's hard for me to witness this first hand. I haven't caught on, but in informal japanese are there different ways to say the same thing, like with MMM's example of "Let's meet up?" I'm aware of different verbal conjugations, but what about completely different words that could potentially lead to the same thought.

Can you be more specific?

者 instead of 方 didn`t bother me much - but saying 日本語*を* instead of 日本語*の* in this case just sounds weird to me.

You are so right...! That's what I get for posting that late. Thanks, as always, Nyororin.

「日本語がわかる人」はどうですか。

ダイレクトすぎるように聞こえますね。文法的にあって はいるけど、そうそう言う事はないと思います。

なるほど。聞いたことがあるけど、あんまり聞かない言 い方だから…
ありがとう！

I don't know if I can be honestly, I'll try to research it a bit if I ever get around to it, but I'll probably forget the whole thing in a day or two.

If that is how important it is to you, then that is how important it is to me.

It's not that I think it's unimportant, I just feel that it's something I'll end up learning during my advanced studies, and I have tons of other questions that I need to be focusing on first.

read what I said. If you don't care now, then I am not going to waste my time trying to teach you.

I am here for dedicated students that need help...

I answered my own question when a friend of mine was helping me study.

Basically, my question was in japanese, can more than one sentence carry the same meaning like in english, and not just using the same verb stems with different forms, i.e. ~て、～たい、～ます、 or ～おう。. Using your earlier example of why it's difficult to learn english:
All those lead to the basic idea of "Let's spend time together." Can the Japanese language do that exact thing? I've already gotten one point of view, not including my own, but I'd like to get another P.O.V., if possible.

That's the general practice...and what I would recommend.

Sure. Japanese doesn't have slang in the SAME way that English does, but except for the most basic sentences, there are always more than one way to say something. This goes beyond the different dialects (which you don't need to worry about yet) and the different levels of politeness (which you should worry about).

Textbook Japanese can sometimes make it sound like there is one way and one way only to say something, but language study is more like art than math, especially when you get beyond the basics.

After four years of learning nothing but textbook Japanese and not talking to too many Japanese people it's kind of hard to find some of the hidden "tricks" to speak by. But maybe that'll help me out on the proficiency test...

笑わないでくれ
 

僕はさ、大学では日本語が専門だったけど、卒業してか ら仕事を見つけるには能力が足りないと思うけど。あれ 、なんか、もう夜遅くても、先の分、だらけばかりなん じゃないっすかね。まぁ、もういいじゃん！

I don't mind putting it to romaji if and only if they have a reason for it like maybe their computer can't read japanese characters yet.. but unfortunately most of the current post on Language section are asking just for translation to make them look cool or something not really for any studying..

その時は答えません。私翻訳ソフトウェアではないから :rolleyes: 。だから面白いな質問だけ返事しています、他は構いま せん。
はい。平仮名とカタカナで一番良いと思うけど:vsign:

賛成です。なんのためにローマジでお願いしているでし ょうか。発音を分からないと意味ない。