Japanese... A dying langauge?
 

Hello. I've been wanting to move to Japan since... well forever. As far back as I can remember, and I do my best to try to learn it. I'm still learning it, and going as fast as I can and what not.. yada yada.

But the more and more I learn Japanese, and about Japanese culture, I quickly find out that it's dying. A lot of Labels on food products and everything in Japan are in English. As are the Company Logo's as well! And even though I still plan on moving to Japan, and I still believe that I should learn the language... It makes me sad to see that Japanese is dying. (As are all of the other Languages of the world! German Espically, and I love German!) I want to get >AWAY< from English. I don't like the sound of how I talk. (It's like nails on a chalk board in my mind and when I talk) >.<.

So, anywhos.. the point of this is... I want to hear some other peoples opinion on this situation. And maybe some from Natives of Japan. :)

It's a real sad thing to me... it really is.

-IhrTodeswunsch

EDIT: Just reading over this and forgot to ad this... Also how they use words half from English, and half from Japanese. Or all out English. Like for Instance, pasokon (Personal Computer), or keeki (Cake), rasshu awaa (Rush Hour), or orenji (Orange), or suteeki (steak). It just makes me all frustrated to see that >.<. I don't want English mixing in with other Languages!

well it has a lot more culture than some countries
anyway basically every country is becoming westernised...

Yes... it does, which is another reason I love Japan ^.^.
And that was the point though, how almost every country is becoming "westernised." I really do hate it. :E

me too Q_Q

Well your`re right with the Labels and the Company Names. There is the major opinion that "english" just sounds cool and exotic in languages like german or japanese... BUT most of the japanese, or german people can´t really speak or understand english. Here in Germany we start learning english as a fourth grader with the age of 10 and it is a thing you can´t avoid during your time at school. But still, the majority just knows a few words and phrases. Same goes for China and Japan. During my time there i was lucky if the taxi driver understood at least where i wanted to go.

I don´t think that these languages are "dying". But the areas were those languages are spoken, aren´t very large or important any more. English is easy to learn and except for chinese, spoken by a great number of people. It´s just the universal language, some sort of heir to the latin.

Hmm.. that does make a lot of sense. Like, for instance.. Programming. It's all in English, and I thought "You had to be fluent in English to Program" but Now with stating that... I just realized that you just have to know bits and phrases of things in order to program. And their only phrases. That's pretty interesting.
And also, we take words too! But we flip them a lot, for instance... "hentai" we use that word, and it's widely used (I guess in an Underground sense). Hmm.. Thanks! That was a big help.

The thing about it is that English is a (for lack of better phrasing) a dumb language (no offense I am an English Primary person). It's just super easy, there is no stern sentence structure (least not much anymore), words don't change based off of use or gender, and slang eventualy ends up in the dictionary (I HATE AIN'T,especialy when I catch myself use it). I mean there is a reason they teach monkeys and apes to sign in English. I really don't think (and sincerly hope) that English won't become the standard language of the world, I think it's currently a trend and the hot thing. Don't forget there are German and Portugese (amongst others) words used in Japanese. Ironicaly spainish is looking like it's becoming the national language of the US.

english will die? yay! i think english is the stupidest language -__-

Yeah....Look at Sanscrit, Latin, and Aramaich(spelling?). Were around for hundreds of years then...*poof*. I like the idea of passing on the culture of the past. I want to finish learning as much Latin as possible, and I am trying to learn the folk tale, fairy tales, and myths of places like China, Japan, Italy, Greece, and Egypt. I want to pass those things on. I love the phrase "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. The best thing we can do is learn these other languages, teach them to others and speak them to each other, even if it's just a little code think between friends.

Super easy? Tell that to a Japanese speaker. English is a very difficult language to learn for the very reason there are so many bent rules...even in the Queen's English.

American Sign Language is taught to monkeys and apes by English Speaking Researchers....let's not get to silly here. I am sure Japanese researchers teach Japanese Sign Language to Japanese monkeys.

Too late, but English is the standard language of communication in international situations.

Oh, and there is nothing "dumb" about English. I think you could find a better phrase. It functions pretty well for a language that is mashed from so many sources.

He is saying we SHOULDN'T forget the past.

Japanese language isn't going anywhere. The attempts by the French to keep the language "pure" are noble, but fruitless. Japan accepts and understands that a language is a living and breathing thing. It's an art, not a math formula. It moves grows and changes as the world does.

And, trust me, there is no threat of Japan dropping Japanese to be taken over by English. Spend 10 minutes there and you will understand that to be true.

Si senor! Same situation in China. Try talking to people or buy something. You´re lost without knowledge of the native language.

Yeah. I'm sure English will spread more but I think that pretty much every country will keep they're main language the same and just incorpurate English into it. And yes Dumb was a bad word to use, I think slack, or even better Free (meaning make your own rules as long as they understand) would be better. And I think that English being influenced by other languages IS part of the reason for it's spread, a lot of words are easier to pick up (at least for European languages) stem from similar root words or orgins. Andn the past isn't necessarily bad it's just that we've made mistakes along the way and if you don't learn from them, you'll repeat them. I mean no one wants a new Hitler. I think there will always be a group to keep the traditions and culture of each nation alive. I mean here in the US there are groups that reinact civil war things, museum of all sorts are around and with the internet (though they say it might overload soon) I think cultural info will be passed pretty well...I mean we are currently on a website designed to discuss the culture and all of Japan. Oh and does anyone know where I can find stuff on Japanese sign language. I'd love to see the differences as a learning experience

You talk about Japanese culture like it's already dead. The Japanese find a balance between preserving the old and accepting the new. The fact that you can have a meal prepared for you exactly the same way as it was prepared hundred of years ago is almost unthinkable in many places. Preservation of Japanese culture is the least of our worries.

/agree

Thanks. This puts my mind to rest.. but not that it's going to be dropped for English. I'm sure NO country would drop a Language over it's mother Tounge, but I mean as English becoming VERY dominate in Japan. Are you saying that it's not as bad as I think it is?

Yes. I am saying it is not as bad as you think it is. English is NOT becoming "very dominate" in Japan. Far from it.

To make a sweeping generalization, Japanese are genius adopters. They can take something (like a car, a CD player, a word) and make it their own.

I am not quite sure what you mean, Tenchu. Many of the traditions have been passed down generation to generation. The fact that kendo is a national sport taught in most high schools (and in a very traditional manner, in respect of the tradition and of those that have passed it down) is only one example of traditional culture still living in Japan. Calligraphy schools exist in every neighborhood in Japan, and are taught to the young and old, alike. The kimono is hasn't changed much. Shasen and Shamisen music is still taught, learned, played. Karate, Judo, the tea ceremony, flower arranging, traditional hanko making. All still very much alive in Japan.

The funny thing about that is, while it is a dumb language, its also supposed to be the hardest language to learn. Makes sense though, you have so many intelligent people in the world, its hard for them to "dumb down" to learn there, thier, and they're, etc. And when things like "bling" and "Ice" make it into the dictionary to describe jewelry it just makes it worse. I hope the japanese language doesnt die for a long long time. And between the hispanics, slang, and somalians, I agree that the english language in america is taking a blow.

I may be mistaken, but isnt "OUR" number system the "arabic" number system?

You are from the mindset that English is one thing. Like there is a textbook that says what is right and what is wrong. You can call English as "dumb" as you want, but just like its speakers, I doubt there is a language that is made up of such a diverse group of sources, and has come together to be the most taught second language in the world. Latin, Greek, French, Italian, Spanish, heck, Japanese, Chinese, Hawaiian, Native American tongues, the list is almost endless. And no two people speak English the same way.

I'll say it again, it's a living breathing entity. It's expansion doesn't mean it's being "dumbed down". Intelligent people are losing words and ways to express themselves.

And I wont even comment on your last sentence.

I don't know what you mean.

Cultures change. It's inevitable. If they don't they die. Japanese are the best adapters out there. They make a conscious effort to marry the old and the new in ways I have never seen in any other culture. I am not talking about museums and plaques. I am talking about traditions and festivals and events that have been going on for hundreds of years, and aren't done every year for tourism or money, but for tradition. I participated in a very dangerous and violeny danjiri fight festival just outside of Osaka. I was the first gaijin ever allowed to join my team (of about 75 guys) in thier 200 year history. (Two teams play joust rolling 2 ton wooden tanks at each other. Very wild stuff.)

Good point, guess Im just bitter from dealing with people who talk "gangsta" 10 hours each day. I just feel that with a language being a living thing, words like "bling" are like a virus to it. and my last sentence may have been the wrong way to word it, however, with the number of hispanic, and somolian immigrants who seemingly refuse to learn english it feels as though english is dying in america. Again, could just be bitterness lol.

What matsuri was that? Would like to check that out.

It's a three-part festival.

Here's one video I found. But it's at night. At about 1:10 on you can get an inkling of the two danjiris colliding.

Amagasaki Festival Day 2

Live in Japan for three days. Any effort by a non-native speaker to speak the language is a gift. If you want to hear the Queen's English all day then you need to move to Buckingham Palace.

Dear god, what is going on here...

Ok before everyone panics about Japanese becoming a dead language, do as MMM says, come to Japan for 3 days. Apart from a few nonsensical flash advertising, English is in no way in daily use for most people.

Japanese has been an adoptive language for a long time. Kanji anyone? Portugese? Pan and Zubon sure as hell aren't japanese words, and they sure as hell aren't english either.

And Japan was hardly a closed country before the end of the Tokugawa period. There was trade going on with the Portugese, Koreans and Chinese in Nagasaki through out the whole time, with the Portugese even coming up to Edo every two years to give gifts to the shogun.

As MMM said, Japan and Japanese are very adoptive, like all languages it is a living entity that evolves. That doesn't mean it's going to die.

Languages have changed for thousands of years. Just read old british texts and you'll notice the differences: verbs had different conjugations, the pronouns were different, even words were completely different. Every decade new words are coming into common use, and old words aren't used anymore. It's a natural flow, and it doesn't mean that a language is dying at all.

I get a real kick out of people who have never been to Japan saying that Japanese is a dying language, or that Japanese culture is fading away.

It`s hilarious. Really.

As for children all over the world striving for different things in the past... Umm... Take a few anthropology courses. Humans in all cultures, all through time have been working toward the same basic goals. Yes, those goals have been colored by cultural differences... But you`ll be hard pressed to find a culture in which anyone was striving for something other than a comfortable life. This is true regardless of the country or the era.

If you`re working to feed your family - what does it matter what they are eating? That`s the level of difference we`re talking about.

I didn't know... that's why I asked... hah.

And thanks MMM. :)

Yeah...I don't think many countries will just up and leave their language and culture. It's just not practical.. The other thing is that people keep moving to countries and places they like and those who transfer into whatever country they decide to usualy like the culture (otherwise they wouldn't be there) and adapt to them (while keep up their own). And Tenchu I say WE because you can't just see the world as a group of individuals, what each of do affects others and to be in the mind set that you can do whatever you want without affecting others just ends badly. We are in this world together and we won't survive if we forget that. And I'll first to admit that Hitler was a military genius, so were Sadam Hussain and Fidel Castro, but that doesn't mean the world needs what they do.

i don't want that the japanese language going to dissapear...because, every country must have own unique language...it makes still a part of culture, history and art...we did get it from our ancestors...even though i am a dutch turk guy and not good in japanese don't want japanese language dissapear...it is just a waste...well it is maybe handy, when you can communicate with different country, when marrying a man/wife of another country....the crimes maybe decrease, but it should keep still intact....that's my opinion...

lol japanise language about to die? i dont think so, more people want to learn it.
maybe japansie people get more from western culture but i dont think they will stop speaking japanise. i have also heard that norden language can die becouse is more less people who speak it. but i dont think it will die. in sweden we do have to speak swedish. if u dont pass swedish, english, math u will not get into highschool and swedish,english and math is also needed to go to college.
and swedish language have also picked up words from finish,english,germany..
like idiot is idiot in swedish but sounds diffrently.
hugs ito

I dont see what people have against english and really theres no point for me to argue against what ever reasons you have but english is only the dominate international language because it is the buisness language because the people with the most money, the people making all the big deals speak english. People want to be part of this flow of money and to understand how this buisness works they must know the buisness language which is english. As soon as what ever shit thats coming towards the U.S. happens and we have no more money or a thriving media/entertainment economy then the language spoken by who ever has the most money will most likely become the new buisness language and from my perspective will most likely become the japaneese because they are so smart and well educated which is why the value of there currency continues to rise and the u.s.'s continues to fall and then soon countries will become easternized instead of westernized and this process should in theory continue for many milliniums to come.


I probaly could have explained some of that better but this is just what i think so if its not correct then some one please correct me without starting a flame war.

omg this is gonna be lolz.

I'm not to sure about this. The Japanese have created a lot of new technologies over time, but I don't think they are to become the next prevelant economy. In fact most believe that this is the reality for China. Due to the number of people, Mandarin Chinese is apparently the most widely spoken language on the planet: with English coming in 2nd and then Spanish. China is currently investing in Africa. Mandarin Chinese is taught in some schools in Zimbabwe (alongside English) and according to the BBC News there has been a 27% increase in pupils sitting the Chinese GCSE in England. With interest in language comes an interest in culture.

So while I think it's fair to say that the above statement is true (to an extent)...I don't think it will be because of Japanese influences.

In relation to the main topic, I don't think Japanese language and culture is dying. I just think it's reforming. For some reason, whenever people think of modernisation, they think of Westernisation. This is a silly mentality that people on a global scale seem to have developed, since many modern day technologies and trends were pioneered in the east. Yes, to a degree Japan has adapted to western standards, but I trully believe that all they have done is modernised.

Wow. How much time did you waste typing that out.

I take it you`ve never taken an anthropology course. Humans aim for a comfortable life for themselves or their children. People don`t go out to wars because it is comfortable - they do so to possibly preserve a comfortable future for themselves, their children, etc. Your inability to connect those ideas together isn`t going to get you any bragging points. People aren`t going to struggle for nothing - there has to be some sort of reward, even if it`s as simple as being removed from struggle.

I`m sorry that you don`t agree, but unless you can counter with something other than "spew"ed insults, it means nothing to me. *yawn*

Oh, and by the way, I`m female... And spent way too much time studying linguistics. You know, that subject that covers the development and progress of language.

I think you`ve hit it on the head perfectly.

Well the other thing I see is look at the US. If you look around here you'll see plenty of people adapting to other cultures. You have those like us who enjoy Japan and asia and adapt it's philosiphies and culture to our own, you have caucasians dressing in a way that is stereotypicly african american. So I think if the world is westernizing then the west is easternizing. Like I said before I think the world is just finding a happy medium. We're starting to adapt ourself in each others ways and I kinda like it. People will either hold to their traditions or they won't, and there will always be those who will. I think it would be more like to be like Blade Runner, were English as a whole will take in from everywhere, I mean that was kinda how it was created in the first place.

Well when the japaneese make a breakthrough in some technology they could monopolize it and become the strongest in terms of economy. Billgates did it, he is selling copies of windows vista for four hundred dollars which is insane for a cd that you put in your computer, but people need operating systems to do stuff like browse the internet none of that is built into the pc hardware, and now billgates is one of the richest men on the planet if not the richest. If the japaneese have such a breakthrough with a technology or a series of technologys that would make something such as colonizing the moon or mars and creating a stable atmosphere for life say 1/100th the cost of what it would be today for example then wouldent people want to take advantage of that people would come up with ways to mine mars and the moon and consume every natrual resource on those planets as cheaply as possible to sell it on earth and become rich they would pay japan great amounts of money to get a hold of this technology, and back to why i predict that japan will become the next big country in terms of economy such as america or what america once was. I predict this because the japaneese are the ones who are going to be smart enough to come up with such a breakthrough that they could monopolize it and people would want it.

Yeah they're already on the start by taking technology that already exists and improving on it to make it better, the next step after that would be creating the new technology.