Well, i think all that we are saying is that HAVING A DEGREE IS A FOOT IN THE DOOR, BUT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT GUARANTEE YOU A JOB.

THere are always exception, but to "GET THIS FOOT IN", the degree IS THE KEY

People who does business trade are different, I meany if you have a store that sells specific Japanese good in the state, and you need to do your procurement in Japan, then I am sure you will be technically living in Japan for the most part. There are also US company that station people in Japan so sure, there will always be exception......

I would have to disagree with you there... Unless you carry a Japanese passport (or spousal visa), even McDonalds in Japan will turn you away

And even then, if you want anything better than working at McDonalds, you need a degree

Scandles are here to MMM we lost a governer to prostitution and now we may lose another person in politics bc he has a love child.

Besides teaching english are there any jobs for thoes not from Japan?

I am going to do a degree at University in Game Design. I would hope to go to live in Japan, but it seems this is quite unrealistic, so I will probably just visit and stay here in the UK. The Game Design industry is hard enough to get into already without throwing in a foreign country. But the majority of the video games are designed there so I need to research things more and see what chances I have.

Here's something to think about: In your own home countries, in order to fill a position that doesn't require a university degree and no special skills, how often do companies hire someone in a foreign country, including sponsoring their Visa so they can get into your country? Considering the time, hassle, and possibly expense of doing that, and getting someone who speaks little of your country's language, doesn't know your culture, and who you know cares more about just getting to live in your country than he does about long-term loyalty to your company, why would they hire them when there are plenty of local kids, some of them even with a degree, applying for the same job? Think about that...

I can tell you now, lots of people hire people like that here. The reason? They can pay them less than anyone living in the country already.

Translation services, but your Japanese has to be very good for that, and possibly acting as a foreign sales rep in a Japanese company. But those positions are relatively very rare compared to teaching English...

Ok, then considering a Japanese person without a university degree usually gets very poor pay, and typically will continue to live in their parent's house because they have a hard time making rent on even a small apartment, would you as a foreigner be willing to work for even LESS, enough less that it's worth the company's trouble to hire you?

For what kind of job though? QA (my field) is probably one of the fastest growing field now, I too hire people from say India or China to cut the cost down, but still we only look for QUALIFY CANDIDATE, in this case, without the ability to do a reference check (we could, but its not simple), the only thing that I can base my hiring decision on is the candidate's academic achievements.

When you say game design, you are referring to graphic design right? There are a lot of things involve in a game, the base engine (which probably require a background in computer science or computer engineering), the story, the character, the graphics....... I am sure specific areas will be of interest to Japanese game developer, however, if you do research game developers in Japan work long hours. The people that did final fantasy have to put sleeping bags under their desk to sleep there. So be prepare for it if you planned to become a game developer in Japan

Even these jobs are not jobs that the employer are willing to sponsor a foreigner to work in anyways. Like Taxi drivers, restaurant waiter and waitress etc... why would mac donald sponsor someone to work in Japan whey their targetted staff make minimum wage?

I wanted to be in the Artist field of game design. A concept artist to be specific. I understand that's how long it takes, I saw a documentry on the making of Halo 2 and some of the guys that were there worked non-stop for 24 hours and barely ever went home.

"Barely" will be an improvement.. They don't go home period :)

Though, ok, so you have a goal, work hard on it, finish your university degree in a relevant field and give it a shot, you won't know until you try

godwine if you don't mind me asking, what type of jobs are you applying for? Are you checking out websites like daijob.com or careercross.com? I'm just wondering. Rejected after the first phone interview with your qualifications? Seems crazy. Do you have certifications that MSCE, A+, CCNA or anything like that? If so I might be able to help ya out...at least give you a lead on a job. If you don't feel comfortable posting it just PM me.

For those still closing out to reality, here is a link for you to further inspire your day:

Jobs in Japan - Secretary

College graduate for secretery work

Thanks, I was applying for QA Lead and QA Manager roles. I have a certification in ISTQB, and a bunch of other managerial type certification. My area of expertise is in SWQA Management, I currently am a senior qa consultant doing people and project management work in a QA capacity.

I think most of the phone interview was turned off my my limited language ability in Japanese, it took me too long to think/translate and respond.

Though, as my other post stated, I pretty much gave up about this since it will be difficult for my soon to be wife to find a job. And it will definitely be difficult for her to adjust, so our new plan is to just stay in Toronto and save some money, then maybe someday IF the japanese immigration law losen up, we will invest in a small business and move there or something. BUT, I will still go once a year to visit friends and relatives :)

Though any help will definitely be appreciated, maybe something will spark her interest again.

Thanks
Godwine
P.S. Lets not hijack MMM's thread, unless you felt your further response is helpful to others, otherwise I think we best take this offline..

This made me ROFL!!!

I used to program the C64 as a games coder (showing my age) but we used to live in a room of computers and code in low level machine code for days at a time. You would never understand our languge as we spoke machine code too each other we were doing it so much. I mean we were so into the game we were making that we could speak code to eachother and lived in darkness only lit by TV screens for days on end. Ahh those were the days!!

Now I am a lead engineer for layer 1 network services and have just got my CCNA and am looking to go for CCIE. I have a very high chance of a job in any part of the world at a very good salery and have never graduated from college.

My last job I was pulling in $80k PA without graduating from college. now what was this thread about?

But look at the amount of experience you have though? A lot of us from the same era in the IT field may NOT have the education because a computer based education wasn't a common thing back then. You said it yourself, you were able to talk in language that half these people don't understand here (BTW, I used to program memory controllers and cpu registers, so close enough), look at the skills you bring to the table.

WE ALL said that its possible if you possess the skill, no one said that its not possible. BUT AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL.

What MMM and others are suggesting to these kids is that if they really want to find a job anywhere, its best to have a degree, and in Japan its definitely THE ultimate advertising point.

People will not just sponsor someone to stay for no reason, there has to be a mutual benefit, while a university degree doesn't equal to knowledge, skills or ability, its a good implication of it, and definitely something that employer can base their evaluation on.

I wanna work in Japan during my gap year after I leave school next year. I think maybe I could earn some money by teaching English as an ALT. After my gap year, I want to study Japanese. How does that sound? Does anyone want to do something similar, or has anyone done something similar?
Apart from that, I don't really know what I could do for a career...

I'm currently 16, and I would love to live in Japan within a few years.

I shall go to the University after my 12th grade (I'm in the end of the 11th), to take a chinese (major) and Japanese (minor) 3-year course. In other words, I will learn Chinese and japanese language, cultures and history, I will make my master degree in China or Japan in the 4th grade, and there's one more year, but I know nothing about that one.

(Will this help me on getting a job? The fact of speaking portuguese, english, spanish, chinese and japanese will help me on getting a job?)

After that I would like to be a JET. And then I would like to stay in Japan for good. What's necessary to do to stay for ever living in Japan, having a job?

You can marry a Japanese Man :)

BUT, while researching on this topic earlier to look for the type of jobs that require a degree (to support our view), I found a few posting for a "Language Researcher". So if you are majoring in the 2 asian language, your education and skill may land you something in the same or similar areas.

True, so true.
I left school early to program computers for the game industry as it was a passion that i developed on my own and also encouraged a small group of friends to get computers. we ended up having coding battles and getting noticed by a games developer.
I agree that for many young ppl now to be a self made boffin is bad kudos and when they realise thier mistake it is much harder and often too late to repair the loss.
I was bought up with the gift of being inquisative (sp) and always afford myself the most enjoyable opportunity so I guess that the education system was not required in my case. I was the kid at school with the scientific calculator not because it was cool but because it converted dec/hex/bin and would smack any other kid in the chin if they badmouthed my calc habits.

2day kidz us txt 2 tlk wd etchthr n it sux 4 dem as dey r jus kilin der own brn wiv lzynes n nvr thnk bout dah rel wrld.

yeah! well reap the wind you sow.

txt this kiddz

32 64 61 79 20 6b 69 64 7a 20 75 73 20 74 78 74 20 32 20 74 6c 6b 20 77 64 20 65 74 63 68 74 68 72 20 6e 20 69 74 20 73 75 78 20 34 20 64 65 6d 20 61 73 20 64 65 79 20 72 20 6a 75 73 20 6b 69 6c 69 6e 20 64 65 72 20 6f 77 6e 20 62 72 6e 20 77 69 76 20 6c 7a 79 6e 65 73 20 6e 20 6e 76 72 20 74 68 6e 6b 20 62 6f 75 74 20 64 61 68 20 72 65 6c 20 77 72 6c 64 2e

Is it really necessary to marry to stay there for good? :s
I never fell in love with anyone, I'm kind of reserved, but then again, I still have have plenty of time

Thanks!

I think so, you do have to marry Japanese. But I could be wrong, you best check with MMM and others who know more concerning that, but given that they don't accept immigration, i think thats your only alternative

odonataYour hex is still spelled in that retarded MSN/SMS spelling/grammar:P You should use the full proper spelling :P

546f6461792c206b69647320757365205445585420746f2074616c6b2077697468206561636 8206f746865722c20616e64206974207375636b7320666f72207468656d2c20617320746865 7920617265206a757374206b696c6c696e67207468656972206f776e20627261696e2077697 468206c617a696e65737320616e64206e65766572207468696e6b2061626f75742074686520 7265616c20776f726c642e

godwine, I will PM you if anything comes my way.

I must say this, that the IT industry is a bit more forgiving when it comes to not having a degree. From what I've seen throughout my years is that experience is king in the IT field. I think this is because many positions need someone to hit the ground running. They don't want to waste the time or money to train someone even if they do have a degree.

I really relate to odonata's situation. I was into computers very early on in life because of my father. From building them from scratch to programming. At 16 I was working as a web designer for a company. Because of the experience I gathered I haven't had any issues with finding a job while competing with degree holders. (I wasn't a complete nerd I did play football in school :p) Along the way I still had to study for certifications. In life you never stop learning.

But most people don't have that situation which is why it's best to get some sort of schooling. Yeah, you could go to japan without a degree but you need 10 years experience in a field. 10 years is a long time to wait. It would make a lot more sense to go to school for 4 years, study Japanese while you're there and then hop over.

You may not believe it now but school is WAAAAY more fun then work.

I an an 8 bit looser, sorry I sux at hex.

010010010010000001110011011010000110111101110101011011000110010000100000011 010100111010101110011011101000010000001110011011101000110100101100011011010 110010000001110100011011110010000001100010011010010110111001100001011100100 111100100100000010010010010000001110011011101010110001101101011001000000111 001101101111001000000110001001100001011001000010111000100000010000100110000 101110011011001010010000000110010001000000110100101110011001000000110011101 101111011011110110010000100000011001100110111101110010001000000100001101000 011010011100100000100100000011101000110100001101111011101010110011101101000 001000000011101100101001

Thanks, that will help

I agree, we need to keep our knowledge enriched. Life has no challenge if you feel and know that you will do what you now know for the next 20 years, you need to to do something to stimulate your brain.

But its true, the IT field is more fogiving, but give it 10 years, the industry will be overwhelmed with people that qualifies both in academic and experieince, education will become a requirement. That is slowly happening. When I first started, QA and certain developer roles don't need a degree. But now we are looking for people with a Bachelor to do QA and a Master to do development work. Its just a claim that can be backup with the degree to say "I can do it"...

Ha ha, I don't know what CCNA is, but if you can do binary, its an easy conversion to HEX, so you are in good shape.

Alright, enough of this BIN/HEX thing. Lets just stay on topic....

I can't imagine what technology we'll have in 10 years and the education needed to take advantage of it. Robots anyone?

Kai13, you don't need to marry someone to stay in japan permanently. Here the qualifications for a single person:

The Minister of Justice may grant permanent residence permission provided that an applicant satisfies requirements of "good conduct" and "sufficient assets or ability to make an independent living". However, foreign nationals having a spouse visa are exempt from these above mentioned requirements. Furthermore, the Minister of Justice must deem that the applicant's permanent residence will be in accordance with the interests of Japan.

In practice, the applicant is required to have lived continuously in Japan for a particular period depending on his situation. For example, the periods are ten years for a person having a working visa, five years after obtaining a long term resident visa, and three years after getting married to a Japanese for a person having a spouse visa. The above mentioned "ten years", however, is not sufficient for some cases. For example, a person who started as a pre-college student or college student in Japan and changed from a student visa to a working visa must have resided in Japan more than five years since his or her working visa was granted. Furthermore, the period of stay of your visa should be the longest in your visa category.

Keep learning those languages, especially Chinese! It's going to be a big one in the future. I'm currently learning Chinese and Japanese right now. It's tough but it will be worth it in the long run. Keep up the good work!

So so true...and even more true for those that don't get any higher education.

Odonata what exactly do you do with computers. I am not sure what area I want to work in yet but I know I want to work with computers.

you can marry someone that is living there and that doesnt require you to have a college degree.

i am going to college to be a welder. i never said anything about not going to college.

Sorry Kenpachi. When you said "You don't need a degree to live in Japan" I read too much into it.

And yes, if you marry a Japanese person, you can get a spousal visa, and your visa status will be covered.

Then we get into the issue of trying to get married without having a college degree...

The games programming I was talking about was a very long time ago. You would get asked to code anything from the hi-score table to CPU controlled character. I ended up programming sound fx quite allot.

Now I deal with setting up and maintaining computer networks. Not so much the computers anymore but all of the equipment between like switches and routers.

hth.

I wish I could add a lot to this, but MMM pretty much said it all, and others have added further detail.

However, I will add that I have a genuine interest in teaching. That is my job. So I hear all this whining about ALT work or English teaching in general... except, I'd be doing this in the states. So for me, a degree was already part of my plan. And although I made a half-hearted attempt at JET (as previously mentioned), I have eventually ended up in Japan because of economic decisions. Frankly, I can just make money faster here. Not necessarily more money overall, just faster money. In addition, I am relatively young, and it seems to me that when you are young you should be able to have an opportunity to travel and see the world. At this point I don't plan to leave Japan any time soon, or possibly ever, but who knows?

As a teacher, and one who is a teacher, and not a dancing monkey who got here by any means necessary, but someone engaged in teaching as a career, I find the "Oh, I won't 'lower' myself to that level" absolutely insulting. If you can't even bother working to get a degree, than you have no idea what it's like to take the courses and the exams to be a qualified teacher, and I don't want you here, because you're bound to give me and those like me, a bad name.

When it comes to Japan, "put up or shut up" is the best advice I can give.

After I finish getting my Bachelor's early next year, I'm going to put my teaching certification and going for my MA on hold and try working as an ALT. At least I already have experience with working as an Assistant Teacher now and I enjoy it for the most part. The downside is that you can't really choose which level students you'd like to work with, but I still enjoy it, and working as an ALT, just seems like such a nice opportunity to learn how to work with different types of children with various backgrounds and cultures since jobs like that are usually overseas. I also find that it'd be nice to have the opportunity to embrace a whole 'nother culture. It has to be incredibly intriguing and exhilarating as well as educational! ^_^

I really do hope that I can get into JET for 2009. I also hope that I can get placed in the northern region...like say Hokkaido.:p

Well I'm very ecstatic to say that I just got notified today that I've been accepted into JET as a CIR (not an ALT :D). I don't know where I'll be placed yet, but at the moment I really don't care. Becoming a CIR has been my plan ever since I started university 3 and a half years ago. I'll be graduating this June, and a few months after that I'll be off to Japan once again :D.

Sweet news, Hatredcopter! I look forward to hearing more about where you'll be and how it goes.

Congratulations. ^_^ I wish you the best of luck. It's great that you managed to achieve your goal.:cool:

If you find a Japanese man who will let his daughter marry you without a degree (because you have zero career potential), I will happily pay for your wedding


Also, I did mention the spousal visa so you didn't need to explain getting married as being an option...