For all those bazzilion I want to be a Japanese citizen/ preminant resitant people
 

Japan times helps break it down, get married win the Olympics or forget it:

Arbitrary rulings equal bad PR | The Japan Times Online

but on a lighter note there was an article where a cat had been promoted to super station master, the only female manager in the company of some railway company, they made the station unmanned 2 years ago due to budget cuts but the cat stayed. That made my day the guy next to me couldn't understand why I was laughing so hard

or u could just become a seal......iｔ might be easier than winning an olympic medal or getting the nobel prize.

The easiest way to become a Japanese citizen:

Marry Nagoyankee!!

I need to keep a copy of that article bookmarked so I can send it to anyone who gripes about the U.S. Immigration policy being unfair when we try to enforce it.

I can see both sides of this issue in Japan. There is serious overcrowding, so why would they want more people - especially foreigners which will inevitably change their culture. On the otherhand, they are not retaining or acquiring the professional class of the workforce, which will eventually hurt their culture too.

However, there is no excuse for not standardizing the process and opening decisions up for review.

Unfortunately, the article was about them refusing 永住権 even to those who WERE married. So I doubt that will help. :P

I seriously don't see why becoming a citizen is so important.

you can't do lots of stuff without permanent residence like get large loans lol.

Well, yeah. Not that that seems like something to strive for, but I know it's needed sometimes :)

as long as u don't root for the giants.

Ugh~ I'm new here and was about to post up my story and ask for advice, but that's making the whole idea quite... bleak.

But x08, you are looking for residency, not citizenship.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but the talk is about PR... which IS residency.

And to be honest, I would be quite happy to give up my Aussie passport. I love Japan that much. Home has never really held anything special for me except for my family being there.

Develop a skill that is usefull to Japan. The birth rate in Japan is so low that the Japanese population can hardly sustain itself. Therefore, foreign workers are being imported for labor skills. Same thing is happening in many affluent nations.

so...does twoish weeks for a vacation to see family count as an extended period of time, making the time clock restart?

It should. It sounds like you over-extended your visa. Just follow the rules and you'll be o.k. the path toward citizenship in any country could possibly take years and be very convoluted. How long in Japan?

I wouldn't even start thinking about PR. You need to worry about getting a work visa that allows you to live and work. Permanant residency is a later hurdle.

To evaluate this article, I really need to hear the real stories.

At this point, this article only mentioned about 3 extreme examples.

I know tons of people got a PR easily and it's hard for me to buy the whole story.

One thing I can agree on is that the location where you are applying to does have effects on its results.

All the people I know who got their PR rather easily reside near Tokyo.

Generally speaking, Japanese (add Chinese and Koreans) don't see citizenship in the same way as Westerners. They see it as a privelage reserved for those that are of the appropriate geneology.... not a right to those that reside in and/or contribute to the wellbeing of the nation.

It is no surprise that they have these heavy restrictions.

What is a surprise is the amount of people on this site that are so determined to get this citizenship. Surely they realise that they will never be "Japanese" in the same way that people travel to say Canada or New Zealand and become Canadians or New Zealanders.

You may not become genetically Japanese, but you will have a political voice with citizenship.
I love the town that I live in. I would like to have a say in the election of officials, and the ability to possibly run for a minor position in the future. Citizenship gives you those rights, while PR only says that you can live in Japan indefinitely. There is a MASSIVE difference. Some people may be happy to just go about their lives, but for me - my son will most likely be living in Japan for the rest of his life. He has a brain injury, and life will not necessarily be easy. I`d like to have an official voice in, say, whether they decide to implement new tax exemptions for children with disabilities (something that is currently in discussion). Or in whether they will provide additional transportation for people unable to drive... All things that you have to be a citizen to cast a vote in.

It`s not about "becoming Japanese" for everyone.

Sorry... I didn't mean to imply that people who wished for Japanese citizenship were trying to become Japanese in the sense that they wanted to be recognized and accepted as ethnically AND culturally Japanese.

Rather I'm surprised that despite the fact that the Japanese have a very culturally conservative and exclusive national identity that some non-Japanese still persist. Though I suspect it's out of ignorance for some.

Hmm... I still don`t see exactly where you are going with this. Do you see it as wrong of me to continue the citizenship process despite the fact that I`ll never really "be Japanese" in the ethnic sense? To persist in attempting to gain the same legal rights via citizenship?

I know that you aren`t necessarily referring to my case, or cases like mine, so I will give you slack. However, it`s still a slippery slope to downplay someone`s desire for citizenship based on your views of what that citizenship means. There is a lot more to it than that.

The average Japanese citizen is usually under the impression that you automatically gain citizenship through marriage. I`ve never had anyone react with anything other than complete shock when told otherwise. I`ve been invited by other mothers to take part in town meetings, but as I`m not a citizen I would have little voice there... And that is frustrating.
There are other legal issues that can be alleviated by gaining citizenship... Such as this; Let us say that something happens to my husband. As favor goes to family that has citizenship, his next of kin becomes our son rather than me. As my son is registered as having a disability, his property is ruled upon by the state. Does he need a 100m2 condo? Nope - chances are it would not come to me, but either be passed to the in-laws or sold if they were unable to receive it (with the funds going to my son). Where does this leave me, who isn`t even listed on our household registry (as non-citizens, even those with PR are listed in another registry)? Chances of something like that happening are very low - but they exist. As does the question of who receives custody of our son should my husband die - citizens are favored in cases where the child is a Japanese citizen like my son.

Even without all of that... It would just be nice to be able to say that I am actually a citizen of the country where my home, family, and friends are. The country I`ve spent my entire adult life in, which I cannot imagine leaving. So I guess it is about "being Japanese" to some extent, as I`m more "Japanese" than I am anything else at this point.

ETA: This is a bit of a touchy subject in my case, as I do have real valid reasons. Everytime someone non-Japanese (or rather, from English speaking countries) hears that I am pursuing citizenship... Their immediate response is "Why do something like that? It`s not like you`ll ever REALLY be Japanese. You`ll ALWAYS be a gaijin!"
That`s not the point, and that`s not what I`m aiming for.

golden rain in other country, rocking rain in your birth country.. it's better in your country.. :d

Okay, I will! XD


Nyororin, that was very insightful.

That's why it's so difficult to become a citizen. People don't want non-japanese to become involved in policy and politics.
I think it's best to wait some years before applying for citizenship anyways. Many people, even if they initialy don't care about thier home countries, find a newfound love of their homelands after being abroad a few years then going home.

That may be the case... But I`d say it`s more that people don`t want those not truly involved in the country to have a say rather than "non-Japanese". I don`t think any country really wants someone who doesn`t really have a true stake in their country to have a political voice - especially if it can rival that of those who *do*. Who wants local policy to be decided by someone who is likely going to be moving away in a year or two? In the end, that *is* what would happen if it were extremely easy to get citizenship. If you don`t consider the country you are living in to be "your" country, then you`re less likely to give deep thought into what your choices may mean for those who do. Not everyone is like that, but many are. In the end, in the back of their minds, many people would push toward making their current country of residence more like "their" country. If you don`t consider the country you are thinking of applying for citizenship in "your country" - then you shouldn`t really be applying.

I`ve had nothing but good and helpful responses from everyone on the Japanese side in applying for citizenship. The US side is dragging it`s heels, "misplacing" my applications for various documents, etc etc. It should not take a year to process my request for a certified copy of my birth certificate.

I definitely agree that people should wait before applying for another country`s citizenship. However, it`s really a moot point in Japan`s case, as you can`t apply unless you`ve been here quite some time anyway.

When I lived in Japan I heard that the following was required: substantial financial reserves and some way to truly contribute to society (i.e. pro sports, science, scholar etc). Is that still the case?

That`s for the "fast ticket" to citizenship. The route 芸能人 and 力士 take.

In reality, the real requirements are more like 10 consecutive years of residence, or 5 if you`re married to a Japanese citizen... And 3 if you are both married and have children who are Japanese citizens. In my experience, they always *strongly* encourage you to take citizenship at every turn if you can speak Japanese and seem to have the intent to spend the rest of your life here. When requesting information on PR, I was asked "Have you considered citizenship? It would probably be a better choice for you." by immigration.

The real pain is getting the paperwork together, particularly as I don`t really want to make a trip to the US just to file for some of it.

Good luck with your citizenship process.

May I ask why you waited more than 5 years to apply for a citizenship?

Cos I believe you lived in Japan for about 7 years? Am I correct?

I don't think a fear of foriegners affecting politics is a real fear of the Japan. People tend to be pretty apathetic and distrusting of politicians, so fear of the gaijin vote is pretty low on the radar.

Thank you.

There are quite a few reasons - one being that we didn`t have a child until 3 years ago. Another is that they didn`t grant me a longer dependent visa until after he was born, so I didn`t particularly think my application would have that much of a chance.

Plus there are other, more personal reasons, such as not wanting to hurt my grandmother who would have been very very sad to see me taking a path that would mean giving up US citizenship in the end. And, well, because it simply isn`t a light decision to begin with.

I'm surprised you've actually received reactions like that given how long you've lived there and that you're married with a child too. Seriously, seeing that you're pursuing a Japanese citizenship doesn't surprise me in the least. It makes sense since you have no intention of returning to the US to reside.

IMO, if you live in a place for a very long time and don't plan on moving back to your home country for whatever the reason, I could see why a person would want a citizenship in said country.

If I ever move to Japan, or any country, and like it enough to want to continue living there permanently, especially if I've been there for 5+ years, and I have a place to live there and am working, even I wouldn't mind pursuing a citizenship...or at least a dual one, if it was possible.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a dual citizenship? What's the process for that?

No, Japan does not recognize dual citizenships.

At least that's what they say but there are people with special circumstances with dual citizenships.

For example, Nyororin's son can basically keep both nationalities and although Japanese govt says that people with dual citizenship must decided before 22, many people end up just not reporting and keep both passports.

Anyways, it's not so surprising for people to react negatively in Nyororin's case because most Americans cannot imagine giving up American citizenship to get inferior Japanese citizenship or something like that.

I'm sometimes amazed how little people know about Japan.

Many people around me still think Japanese wear kimono and samurais still exist or something.

Lack of knowledge is a scary thing...

Well, they do, just only for ceremonial occasions!

Edit: I don't really see it as a 'fear of foreigners' as some people have said. You do have to realize that Japan is a far older country than most Western countries, yet has only really been exposed to western civilization for 75-100 years. Most Western civilizations have been openly trading for centuries.

It's not a 'fear', its more of a 'this is our boat, don't rock it' style of thinking.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, I'm open to facts to disprove me

A random note - my son does not have dual citizenship. He only has Japanese citizenship. We attempted to register him for US citizenship after he was born, but the embassy requested that we do so within 90 days of his birth or face triple fees. Fine - but he was in the hospital for 5 months after birth and definitely not in a state that would allow us to take passport photos. (Unobstructed face? Umm, not when you`re on life support.) The refused to work with us on this point, telling us 1) Bring him in, along with a medical team to keep him alive for the trip to Osaka and back. or 2) Bring in 3 doctors to verify that what we were saying was true - along with a translator certified by the embassy ($$$$$) if they couldn`t speak fluent English.

And, after clarifying the situation, they had the nerve to say "Why bother registering him? He`s not going to survive anyway."

Never mind that. We can cope without US citizenship, thank you very much.

The natural assumption, it seems, even among 99% of the other foreign wives in Japan is that the ultimate goal is to take family back to whatever country I was born in. The very idea of taking Japanese citizenship is something unthinkable.
The current thinking seems to be that having US citizenship is much "safer" than Japanese. Especially as "You`ll never really be Japanese anyway!"

No one ever said you need to have social skills and manners to work in government facilities.

This is one of the reasons why I avoided a relationship during my stay in Japan. It did seem that people assumed a Japanese + gaijin couple would eventually end up in gaikoku. I knew that I wouldn't be in Japan long as an English "teacher".

I would like to move back to Japan, I found myself living happier and healthier than in Canada, but I need to learn a desired skill first. I can't see myself being an eikaiwa teacher for the rest of my life (let alone the shady practices with most of the larger chains).

Japanese people don`t make the assumption as much. Occasionally I`ll be asked if we ever plan to live abroad, but usually they are more shocked that I don`t already have citizenship than anything else... And surprised to hear that you don`t automatically receive it by marrying a Japanese national.

To give the embassy worker a bit of slack - the health center here said something vaguely similar when I went to renew my son`s hospital insurance thing. "Wow! I never thought he`d last this long! Look everybody, the 400 grammer is still alive!" But at least they didn`t say that he would die to my face. (Not that I wasn`t thinking that myself, but it`s another story altogether.)

ETA: A bit off on a tangent, so not going to bother making a new post for this... But... Something that often annoys me about a lot of the other "international" couples in Japan is that the foreign side almost NEVER seems to take into account the feelings of the Japanese side in regard to where they will live. They assume that if the other party is marrying them, they will agree with moving away from Japan, no questions asked. This has been the #1 reason I have seen for marriages failing. Somehow the Japanese side`s desire to be near family or in a country where they speak the language well, etc, is virtually NEVER considered nearly as important as the foreign side`s desire to be close the *their* family and in the country they grew up in. I have never seen a marriage where this was an issue last.

That's a reason why I could live with a Japanese spouse within Japan, if it were to happen. They do seem very family oriented, but I myself can go for extended periods of time without seeing family. I know I may sound cold. Its not that I don't care for my family, its just that I don't have the strong desire to have to see them. I did go live abroad for 2 years in my early 20's =p I only returned because I was one of the Nova "drones" (as all eikaiwa called us) that went home after it went bottom up.

On the note of the health center: I thought most Japanese made a point to avoid being blunt? Guess I was wrong.

I totally agree with this. It's not so much becoming Japanese, but rather, being able to say you belong to the country that you love and view as home.

Sorry... you've misunderstood again (my fault for not being clearer). I don't PERSONALLY think it's wrong for anyone, anywhere to apply for citizenship.

But I think if you understand the nature Japan's national identity (put simply it emphasizes geneology rather than ideology) then in order for you to be able to achieve citizenship which relates to national identity then you have the uphill task of challenging to some extent, the very national identity with which Japan in general believes in. What is surprising to me is that some people are willing to do that.

In essence I'm not really downplaying someone's desire for citizenship based on MY views of what citizenship means. Rather downplaying the desire of those that seek citizenship in a country based on whether or not it goes against the general view of what citizenship means to that particular country.

Personally I don't think Japan's culturally conservative approach is inherently wrong. It would be wrong if my (New Zealand) government were to adopt a similar approach though as the history and circumstances of New Zealand are different.

For what it's worth though I do think the Japanese government needs to cut you some slack though via the fact that you are married to a Japanese citizen who lives in Japan. :)

Interesting.

I am all for dual citizenship laws. In NZ you are allowed to be a dual citizen. A citizen of New Zealand and of whatever other country you feel allegiance to. I'm under the impression that the European Union countries as well as countries like Malaysia and Singapore also allow dual citizenship.