I agree with what you are saying 100%, GoNative. I am not concerned with Christian values, but understand the thinking behind the Seven Deadly Sins and for the most part agree. Being proud doesn't always have to be a negative though. Should I not be proud of my father, the war veteran? Should I not be proud of my son, the football star?

In terms of government programs, you really hit the nail on the head. In the US, the so-called "Patriot Act" was called that, but it was (and is) a bill that allows the US government unprecedented access to things like phone and email records without the usually required warrants. If you don't support it, you must not be a patriot, right? Genius!

I just learned about this in this very thread, then wikipedia'ed it, and I am baffled by it.
This is frightening stuff..

What was the score with the H&M discount. Was a Visa required or was it just a no strings discount?

I only ask as it would be illegal for them to offer a tourist discount on a resident visa.

Wings - I see your points, & although I disagree with them, you seem determined to win this 'forum battle'. Btw, I love your avatar :D I'd rather have people mistaking me for a tourist, than having abuse thrown at me, just because of the football team I support (which has actually happened). Just get over it. The world will never become all shiny & perfect for you, so you just have to get by best you can.

I don't get patriotism, personally. People in the Uk aren't really patriotic. I and many others may love my country, but it's in the same kind of way you love an old pair of really comfy pants; it's a familiar and nostalgic fondness- unthinkable to deface it or throw it away, but at the same time, you're not going to mount it on the wall for all to see. It's just pants. Similarly we may wax lyrical on how much we ~love~ it, but you'd also willingly admit that it's seen better days and with a kind of embarrassed ironic amusement point out the shabby fraying edges and patches. And just like you'd think someone who made shrines to old pants was crazy, people who are greatly patriotic are generally booed and looked down on and avoided.

We get huffy and indignant when people insult the UK or mock it, and god forbid anyone dare try laying hands on it uninvited, that's just NOT on, and that's deeply personal too, but in general conversation, it's seen as silly to get worked up over it too much. Again, like getting overly proud and show-offish... of your old pants.

For some undoubtedly, British patriotism is ALL about comparison, superiority, or racism, but for most I think we spend so much time pointing out the crappy bits of our own country to each other(and having them pointed out by others), and yet -still- loving it, when a Brit criticizes someone else's country, it's not about proving we're better, it's about rationalizing that our old pants country's flaws are pretty equal to everyone else's so it's all ok. That and the national love of kicking soap boxes out from under people.

TL;DR- I think you can be proud and show a love of your country without being 'patriotic' per se, or thinking your better than others. TBH, most Japanese people i've met who were "omg, Japan is awesome, I love it", were saying so from the viewpoint of "I want to share it with you, I think you'll love it too!" not "and your country is crap in comparison".

In reply to the posts on patriotism, I'm patriotic about Scotland, but not of the UK. Also, can you be patriotic of a country in which you weren't born, or have any relation to? Or is this simply a love for the country?

Sorry a'body. Double post. (>_<)

I love my country--- the place I ws born in and who has educated me. etc

I know very wel lthat we are far from perfect== WHO IS?

I am not proud of many things we have done but am jolly glad that I live here.

As for not being recognised as a person who is studying here for a while-- but a tourist--- almost the same thing in a way-- why on earth get in a paddy about being mistaken for a tourist.


When I am in Brighton its hard to tell who is who with so many students and foreign visitors. I don't know who works or lives here-- and I do not care.


Hoping we can be kind to those we meet and understanding and helpful.

Re : Being mistaken for a tourist.

I have it the other way around. Both of my parents are Japanese so I obviously look Japanese, have a Japanese name, etc.

Yet, when I'm in Japan, people consistently assume that I'm Japanese. ;)

It's annoying but I let it pass because I'd do the same if the situation was reversed.

Oh yeah, on a different note, there was a time when I was living in Japan for a few months and fed up with the monotonous nature of Japanese society. I'd always see a few caucasian English speakers on my commute to work and I'd instinctively give them a smile or a quick greeting. I wondered why they never responded until I realized that I looked like one of the other 127 million Japanese citizens to them.

I'm on the same boat. I had to fill out paperwork at Nagoya airport once cuz they lost my baggage and it took them a while to understand that I can't read or write Japanese.

Things that I think are bad in Japan... (or more like 'I don't like about Japan')

- maybe mostly just in Tokyo, but it's so EXPENSIVE. But the quality is usually good.

- the weather sucks during the summer, like many other Asian countries, it's hot and humid.

- I like to sport my cheap old navy flip flops, a tank top, and jeans that are a bit too long so they drag the ground (not a preference, I'm just short). My grandma runs after me with scissors (lol this sounds horrible) when I leave the house, trying to hem my pants, asking if I had real shoes and telling me to cover up. I don't believe this is the norm in Japan though, just my grandma :p

- people don't confront each other, usually. If they had a problem they would just complain behind their backs.

- service people are great, but sometimes I feel like they are robots.

- education. I've never actually had education there, but it sounds like torture. Plus I've heard that the bullying is top notch. But then again I have yet to discover any country with a great education system.

- girls are anorexically skinny, and the guys are even skinnier. lol it's not _bad_

- driving. It's crazy scary.

- they don't allow piercings or tattoos in pools

- the JOC is very bad. It's as if they want to make sure that the athletes have the least amount of success or fun as possible.

- cheering at sports competitions, esp swim meets.

- and personally, wasabi and kanji, and keigo.

But all in all, Japan is a great place. Lots to love about.