Women's Rights

[YoshimiTheEthereal]

So do women get paid the same as men now? Or do they still get paid less for the same job because of their gender?

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by YoshimiTheEthereal

So do women get paid the same as men now? Or do they still get paid less for the same job because of their gender?

Now this, I wouldn't be surprised was still the same, but getting there. As far as I know, even the US still has this problem...supposedly.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Now this, I wouldn't be surprised was still the same, but getting there. As far as I know, even the US still has this problem...supposedly.

As does England.

[Henbaka]

As does Sweden.

[Wasabista]

There are problems with measurement. In Canada, we have a government commission that tries to rank jobs according to value-added. Their recommendations are not binding in the private sector, but they suggest that clerk-typists add more value than, say, shipper-receivers. The problem is that shippers have to move boxes around, which nobody likes to do, so it tends to get done by men, and if you don't pay more you can't find them. So this is a situation where "women are paid less for similar jobs" when this is not the truth at all.

It's also true that men are more ready to ask for more money than women are. And the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

There are problems with measurement. In Canada, we have a government commission that tries to rank jobs according to value-added. Their recommendations are not binding in the private sector, but they suggest that clerk-typists add more value than, say, shipper-receivers. The problem is that shippers have to move boxes around, which nobody likes to do, so it tends to get done by men, and if you don't pay more you can't find them. So this is a situation where "women are paid less for similar jobs" when this is not the truth at all.

It's also true that men are more ready to ask for more money than women are. And the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

It's not the same in all cases. This kind of discrimination still goes on, whether some cases are different or not. There will always be undeniably some kind of discrimination between women and mens pay, regardless of other cases where people may claim it's 'justified.' One case is enough.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

It's not the same in all cases. This kind of discrimination still goes on, whether some cases are different or not. There will always be undeniably some kind of discrimination between women and mens pay, regardless of other cases where people may claim it's 'justified.' One case is enough.

One case is enough for what? For a massive intervention in the workings of the free-market economy?

I'm all in favor of equal pay for equal work. In fact, Japan's failure to put its highly educated, talented female workforce to better use is one of its most calamitous missed opportunities. Women graduate at the top of their classes from elite universities -- join big keiretsu firms -- and pour tea. Shocking.

But before you jump, it's important to consider:
1) Are you comparing jobs that are really the same? Is one more stressful than the other? More dangerous? More arduous? Comes with heavier responsibility?
2) When women want better pay and promotions, do they ask for them in the way men do?
3) Is she in it to win it, or will she quit when a husband comes along? (This is especially nettlesome -- assuming that women will quit early doesn't make it so.)

The studies I have seen give the lie to the often repeated refrain that "women get paid less for the same work." In fact, at least in the United States, women make less money period. Mainly because they shun dangerous or arduous jobs. Also they have the option of retiring at age 25 (i.e. housewife) -- an option you may or may not like, but it's not available to men.

Complicated.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

One case is enough for what? For a massive intervention in the workings of the free-market economy?

I'm all in favor of equal pay for equal work. In fact, Japan's failure to put its highly educated, talented female workforce to better use is one of its most calamitous missed opportunities. Women graduate at the top of their classes from elite universities -- join big keiretsu firms -- and pour tea. Shocking.

But before you jump, it's important to consider:
1) Are you comparing jobs that are really the same? Is one more stressful than the other? More dangerous? More arduous? Comes with heavier responsibility?
2) When women want better pay and promotions, do they ask for them in the way men do?
3) Is she in it to win it, or will she quit when a husband comes along? (This is especially nettlesome -- assuming that women will quit early doesn't make it so.)

The studies I have seen give the lie to the often repeated refrain that "women get paid less for the same work." In fact, at least in the United States, women make less money period. Mainly because they shun dangerous or arduous jobs. Also they have the option of retiring at age 25 (i.e. housewife) -- an option you may or may not like, but it's not available to men.

Complicated.

If the jobs aren't the same, then they simple aren't. What people are mentioning is, less pay for jobs that are the same. If the jobs are not the same, and require more work and/or come with more stress, then pay differences are justified.

If they don't ask for promotions does it mean they are not entitled to them? I don't think we can simply say men ask for promotions and women don't - obviously you can see, it's not as simple as that.

People should never look at a women and assume she's going to give up because of a husband or child. That's like looking at a black man and assuming he's a gangster. A lot of women don't get married and a lot of them don't have children either, and even if they do it doesn't mean their work is going to be hindered by it.

Men are just as able to quit their jobs and look after the children as women do. Sexism is not just prejudice against women, but also against men, and the men being forced to work is not always what they want either. I don't like gender roles as I believe it should be down to the individual and simply because they have female or male parts should not stop them achieving their goal.

So yes, it is really complicated, in some situations, people should not be paid the same for doing different jobs, but the arguement is for a person doing practically the same job and getting paid less for it.