Hikikomori and Asperger's

[Heru]

I have Asperger's and I was wondering exactly how things would work with me.

I realize I'm phrasing this question oddly.

Pretty much how would life be for someone visiting or living in Japan that has Asperger's?

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by Heru

I'm have Asperger's and I was wondering exactly how thins would work with me.

I realize I'm phrasing this question oddly.

Pretty much how would life be for someone visiting or living in Japan that has Asperger's?

I think it would depend entirely on how severe the person's Aspergers is, what support system they have in place, and what their circumstances will be once they arrive in Japan. In a sense life would be the same for an Aspergers person as for any other individual, but what they would find challenging or awkward would be very much different to someone without the disorder.

It's hard to say really, because Aspergers can be a bit of a label and everyone who has it has different areas they struggle with more than others, no two people with the disorder are the same. It might be easier if you listed certain traits and said 'how would a person with these traits be like in Japan?' because the question seems a bit vague to me, like a generalisation, you know? :/ Sorry, I'm probably not expressing myself right.

You mentioned hikikomori in your subject title too. Is there a link between that and your question in your main post?

[steven]

Maybe this will help:
Hikikomori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think what RobinMask is asking for is quite a reasonable thing to ask for-- I've heard of people wih "asperger's" who seem to grow out of it. To me that suggests less of a disease and more of a basic social behavioral problem which can be fixed with a little experience. There are also people who obviously have a disease, though, too.

Judging by the topic's title, is it safe to say you have some of the traits of "hikikomori"? I think that while "hikikomori" can be sometimes linked to things like asperger's, it is often a lifestyle choice that some people make. I've heard people talking about it before, but I've never really met anyone who was like that. I can assume, though, that it would be hard to cope with something like that while in Japan. By nature a condition like that would kind of stop one's ability to look for support when things get bad. Foreign people in Japan often hang out with each other as it can be hard to find Japanese friends with a lack of language ability. Also if it's bad enough to prevent you from working/going to school then I think you wouldn't be able to live in Japan as that seems to be the top criteria for being able to live in Japan.

For visiting Japan I think it would be quite stressful going to a place like Tokyo or any other big city for that matter. There are so many people that it can be overwhelming for anyone!

[Heru]

Asperger's isn't a disease it's a disorder.

I've learned over time to fake normalcy but I still come off unnatural.

Traits...

Well I have slight social phobia, I don't like dealing with people and I'm scared too and I'm sure this comes from my past experiences where I was often outcasted or insulted or was insulted by people.

I don't understand facial expressions most of the times. It's hard for me to read them. I don't get tones, sarcasm, or jokes, unless they are very obvious.

I take just about everything literally. I come off blunt and rude at times. Also I come off overly sensitive.

I have obsessions with symmetry and research. I tend to drone on about things no one is particularly interested in for long periods of time. Usually I think, "this is soo interesting" and I assume everyone, or most, would find it interesting.

I like routine, I dislike spontaneous things. It drives me mad when something happens that messes up my routine.

Those are just a few, there is more to list but I think those could be the core issues.

I mentioned hikikomori because some people with asperger's may be labeled as hikikomori.

I'm bad at knowing when to speak, how much to speak, and when to stop speaking. I just can't pick up on cues like that.

I have been getting better; however, since I've been practicing how to fake facial expressions. I usually have an expressionless face and most tend to think I'm sad, depressed, or lonely, at times when I'm in fact happy and content.

[WingsToDiscovery]

Well I have slight social phobia, I don't like dealing with people and I'm scared too and I'm sure this comes from my past experiences where I was often outcasted or insulted or was insulted by people.

You'll be in a giant city where I presume you're not very familiar with the language. No one will understand you, or vice versa. You may be forced to interact with many people to get around.

I don't understand facial expressions most of the times. It's hard for me to read them. I don't get tones, sarcasm, or jokes, unless they are very obvious.

The Japanese language is very indirect, meaning you'll probably have a hard time recognizing certain facial expressions and what is generally implied by the speaker if you can't pick up vocal tones.

I take just about everything literally. I come off blunt and rude at times. Also I come off overly sensitive.

Once again, Japanese is very indirect. People may think you're being really brash.


I like routine, I dislike spontaneous things. It drives me mad when something happens that messes up my routine.

Will you react if you miss a train/taxi, wake up late, get stuck in traffic, or other city related delays?


Overall, it really depends on what you think you're confident with. I am in no way saying that I don't think you could make it in Japan, however, I will say just from a helpful perspective, it's hard enough to make it here for people who don't have any types of disabilities or diseases. If you feel confident enough to handle these core issues that you've identified, then you should be alright.

[Heru]

I lived in new york city and have had to deal with people during rush hour. I can deal with lots of people it's just I don't like it.

I got very upset whenever a train was late but I learned to deal with it. I added it into the equation of the routine so the lateness of the train became routine, it was always routinely late lol. Always between 10-15 minutes, very rarely more and usually not less.

I will for sure have problems with facial expressions. I am learning to understand facial expressions, even though I still don't get most of them.

[steven]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but how old are you?

To be honest, I think that what you described as your traits will make things difficult here. Do you know how to speak Japanese? Part of speaking/knowing Japanese is being very sensitive to what others are feeling (so an English speaker learning Japanese might take the more straightforwardness of his/her language and apply it to Japanese causing some problems). I think it definitely depends on who you hang out with, but it's best to not be overly sensitive when speaking Japanese as Japanese will say some things that we normally wouldn't say in English which can be taken as offensive.

"I'm bad at knowing when to speak, how much to speak, and when to stop speaking. I just can't pick up on cues like that. "
This seems very dangerous in Japan. Knowing when and when not to speak is extremely important (it's important in English too, but in Japanese there are different reasons, like status, that cause this). Picking up on cues in general is a trait that Japanese people seem to look for. If you can't, you're "KY" or a "hen na gaijin" or "hen na nihonjin".

On the other hand, in general (especially in the work place) there is quite a bit of care taken in planning out schedules and things like that-- straying from which seems to cause discomfort. That's not to say that spotaneous things wont happen here too...

I think that going to another country (especially if you wanna live there) requires a deep understanding, or a deep will to understand the culture. Understanding culture requires quite a bit of empathy. That's not to say that a lot of people don't come here who can't empathize with the culture... I've seen it quite a bit to be quite honest. When you enter a new culture, I think that you have two personas-- your L1 (first language) persona and your L2 (second language persona). I'd argue that a lot of foreigners in Japan have traits more severe than yours as far as their L2 persona goes. These are people who can't really say hello, don't know when to speak, refuse to do even simple things out of a fear that they will embarass themselves or others, cause a ruckus without being able to empathize with the native people, are quick to make quick negative generalizations, and even get angry when things don't meet their expectations. Sometimes they even get angry or impatient when something they are trying to communicate doesn't seem to be working (inspite of their very basic language ablity). Myself included, I think a lot of foreigners in Japan experience some of these things to varying degrees. It's all about understanding your mistakes and learning to move on though. I think it's just a matter of taking more time for certain people. The more time you spend in a culture the quicker you can "tune" your persona "by ear", if you know what I mean (that goes for L1 as well in my opnion).

[Heru]

I'm 20, I can't speak Japanese very well. I can hold simple conversations in the language though.

In time I can get better. I just have to learn and study body language and expressions and tones. It'll probably take me a few years though. It's taken me a long time in America and I've lived here most of my life, but then again I never really tried to better myself until a few years ago.

[steven]

The fact that you realize that you need to look at gestures and body language and stuff like that gives you an edge over most people who live here. In language study things like that are underemphasized in my opinion... so making an effort to study them is a great thing to do. Giving yourself a few years is a realistic expectation if you have regular contact with native speakers.

Teachers often subscribe "listening" in language courses. I think that's great, but there's a huge element to language that is left out: "watching". In otherwords, "observaion" of a language is VERY important. Just like music, there is listening and there is active listening. Active listening being the kind of listening that is kind of dangerous to do while driving, if you know what I mean. Doing that kind of "active" approach to language obsesrvation is really important. We talk about facial expressions and tone and body language and things like that... but you really have to look and listen for the nuances. Like for pronunciation, sometimes it helps to look at peoples' mouths when they speak as it can give you some hints on pronunciation. Sometimes it helps to really listen to "pitch" and "cadence" and things like that (which are very regional in any language). I think basic ear training should help you a lot. To be honest I was very deadpan for most of my high school life until I really started getting into music. It helps to watch people to figure out the timing of when they groan or when they say their "ummms" and "uhhhhs" and things like that.

I think with language there will be those kind of stifled periods where you overthink things... that is definitely true for a second language. The goal is to get through that period, start learning to "copy by ear", learn to improvise by using phrases that you've picked up, and then start rounding the edges of it all to create a smooth and natural language. In a weird way, I think that applies to both spoken language, body language, and culture (in language terms: what to say and when to say it).