how bad is sexism and prejudice in Japan?
 

I'm a female, which in many ways will not be to my advantage moving to Japan. They view males as the superior gender in Japan (actions speak louder then words; I hear with a woman pursuing a career there is what is known as a "glass ceiling"). I'm also a foreigner which will not prove to be to my advantage.

Granted with the trouble Japanese have had with foreign countries in the past (U.S. during WWII and China) I can understand to an extent. However I'm just wondering how judgmental Japanese will look at you regarding these topics. Lucky me, I fit under both categories so the odds are kind of against me.

I know for the most part, Japanese is not a melting pot; they tend to be homogeneous group of people. Foreign is different, and people fear what they don't understand, which is probably a large reason of why prejudice and sexism exist.

Traditionally women haven't played the role of working outside the house, helping to bring income to the home (at least not in Japan) until recently. Some Japanese are probably more set in their ways then others regarding this change (I know Japanese have many traditions in their culture, some being a daily part of life, which they view as sacred)

I'm totally sorry....I feel for you. Just keep mace/pepper spray on you because I heard us female get raped easier in Japan. I heard usually the cops won't do anything about it.

Well I'm not trying to condemn them. This is just what I've heard, I won't actually know until I get to Japan. Is it true what you said regarding rape with women in Japan? I mean how often does it occur?

I heard groping is very common and it isn't illegal? :confused:

really??? ew. Thats so corupt. Yeah, some of my older friends have warned me not to date a japanese guy since they're very traditional in the fact that the women is inferior. Basically, they're very bossy men.

That's a personal issue that is between you and the person you're romantically involved with. You set boundaries based upon what the other person is comfortable with. If you love them, you won't do something that makes them feel uncomfortable. Even if the idea is appealing to you, you have to keep your partner in mind and what he/she likes and doesn't like.

It doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm talking about. I'm asking how bad sexism and prejudice is in Japan, because these will both be real issues for me. This is because one I'm a female and traditionally Japanese men do view the female as the inferior gender.


Two I'm a foreigner and they have a fear of foreigners
which I believe is probably where the prejudice against them stems from (that and in the past they have had bad experiences with people from other
cultures). I'm wondering how true this is or this just stereotyped. Granted I know it will vary from person to person in Japan. I don't like people thinking one gender is more superior then the other. It leaves the other gender with hurt feelings, makes them feel inferior, and just having that belief is extremely controlling behavior.

Yes I know that doesn't change the reality of the way things really are. However it makes it really frustrating when there is this stereotype against women that we're somehow less capable and/or inferior as a human being simply because of our gender. I mean how many times have you seen a white, American male viewed as inferior? I know life isn't fair but that really provides little solace for the people who have to struggle with this stereotype because it affects them in a very real way. Guys are better with some things than women are and vise versa. That doesn't make either gender inferior; it just makes them different. It doesn't make either gender "weaker" it's just some characteristics are more prominent in the male gender and other characteristics are more prominent in the female gender.

I can't imagine that would be true. O__O
I thought Japan loved women.
I thought japanese men at least loved women just a little.

Okay I never said that Japanese men don't love women. I don't know why everybody is taking this the wrong way. I'm not trying to offend anybody. I just don't want to have an unrealistic perspective regarding their culture. From what I HEARD they view females as an inferior gender when compared to males (in other words it's a male dominated society; women are important to them sure, but they have their place). I'm merely asking is this just a stereotype or not?

Rape is not a widespread problem in Japan. There are massage parlors and hostess clubs everywhere. Japan certainly does not see the same kind of sex crimes that are elsewhere. Groping is something that has come under more control through public campaigns and is not acceptable unlike in say France or Italy.

The issues with careers are true to some extent, but like you pointed out you are foreign anyways. There are only a limited number of careers available. And no it is not because Japanese are racially prejudiced, the simple fact is that there are more than enough highly skilled and qualified Japanese for the jobs at the moment. Second, Japanese companies operate in a completely different way that is unique to Japan. Japanese work on being Japanese their entire lives and is what it really takes to work with them. It is not something that can be easily mastered or learned even if I could explain to you what that means.

I never said it was. However Japanese need to understand that some foreigners are highly capable to do the same jobs that Japanese can do. To just judge gajin and assume they're not capable of doing a job (they don't have the skill or knowledge because they're not Japanese) well that's really not fair and it's not even ethical morally. I imagine it's not easy to adjust to Japanese culture as a foreigner because it's more then likely completely different then the culture you grew up in. Yes I know it's not easy; I can say this just by learning their
language, it's very complicated and it's not easy to master.

Not racially prejudiced? They have a fear of foreigners which tends to make them bias. They view males as the superior gender. Who do you think primarily dominates Japanese society when you look at the genders? Female or male? If you're going to say that they have no prejudice at all in their culture then you're probably wrong.

I mean in America, look at how the 50's and 60's have done with our view about minority groups (African Americans and Latinos; even though U.S. tries to promote accepting diversity in cultural groups, some people can still view them as inferior simply because of what race they are; it all depends on what time period they were raised in). Look at what the whole 9/11 incident has done; look at how it's made us view Arabs or anybody from the Middle East or Saudi Arabia.

Same goes for what Americans did to Japanese during World War II and why the Chinese and Japanese basically despise each other. Why do the Japanese hate the Chinese? Because from what I've heard, throughout history Chinese have frequently invaded Japan and tried to make at as part of their country if you will.

Chinese hate the Japanese because they used many Chinese refugees as comfort women (sex slaves). They promised food to them if they returned the to their place of shelter, although it had been burned down to the ground by Japanese. They basically just gave an empty promise as bait to lure them. They raped Chinese and Koreans until they could get no more pleasure from them sexually then killed them. They essentially treated them like slaves in every meaning of the word; and they did it mostly to Chinese and Korean women they saw them as beautiful and sexually attractive. Most Japanese won't even acknowledge that they did such horrendous things to Chinese and Korean, so I can understand why Japanese have left a bad
taste in the mouths of Koreans and Chinese, why they don't trust them, and why they're a wee bit bitter.


There are many wonderful and unique things about the Japanese culture. However it's not a utopia, and just like any other culture, they do things that are morally wrong and much of
the time really end up hurting people emotionally because of it (as in seeing a Japanese female or a female in general as inferior simply because of her gender).

It is not about doing a task. It is about fitting into the entire work environment. They expect you to know things and act a certain way. Meetings, negotiations, interviews, decision making and just about every aspect of business has a certain way it should be performed.

Take for example the exchange of business cards. When exchanging cards with a prospective client or seller, you extend the card out in front of you holding it with both hands. Exchange the cards simultaneously while you both bow to each other. Do not place the card in your pocket or billfold. Also immediately after you are given the card inspect it thouroughly front and back. Be sure to pay special attention to the rank of the person you have just met and adjust your speech to the proper level of formalness or lack thereof. If you are not the highest ranking employee representing your company and somehow you just greeted the top gun from the other company prior to your superior doing so, congratulations you've just lost your job! When you entered the room you should've known automatically by the arrangement in which they were sitting who was the lead representative. You being lower level should greet the representatives of similar rank and file before moving to the head honcho.

I couldn't make this sort of stuff up if I tried. Japanese are just that meticulous (or is the word ridiculous).

Let me give you an idea of top professions for foreigners in Japan: #1 Language instruction #2 Executive recruiters #3 Entertainers (musicians, hostesses) #4 Egineering (computers or other technologies) #5 Those employed by international firms who have been placed in Japan #6 Those who are employed by Japanese firms having been recruited from overseas #7 Entrepreneurs

As far as racism, I've never met a Japanese person who fears foreigners. If anything at all, Japanese are much more interested, engaged and friendly with the foreigners that share this country with them than anywhere in Europe or the States. If I said that there were no racists in Japan, I didn't mean to. There certainly are some, but being Japanese they are relatively polite about it.

The idea I am simply putting forward is that most people are decent human beings. On an person to person basis, I don't really see all this deeply ingrained hate for one group or another. For those who do have these types of feelings, why should I even bother trying to change or worry about the perspective of someone as ignorant as that.

When I first came to Japan, I use to rant and rave about things like this all the time. After a while though, you just have to accept that this is Japan and it will be whatever Japanese want it to be.

The women's issue is whole different thing that I can't really speak to. Yeah it's there. The thing is a lot of Japanese women kind of like the way things are. They also understand that the way to make social changes in Japan has to be slow and relatively quiet. Putting on a show and burning bras will only hurt the cause. Once again, its just the way it is because its Japan.

Occam's Razor - "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

That's generally how it goes in Japan. Take a gaijin and a Japanese person with equal skill and equal attitude regarding a job position. The Japanese person is often likely to be hired, unless its a job such as teaching English or translation.

I know a few guys in the translation industry in Japan, and what I hear from them is that Japanese tend to be very difficult learners of English. In other words, it's easier for a foreigner to become completely fluent in Japanese than it is for a Japanese person to become completely fluent in English. That said, most of the well-paid translators in Japan are foreign, and they translate from Japanese to English.

Getting down the point, any job that involves
A)Teaching English
B)Doing translation work (whether it be patents, academic journals, manga, etc)
C)International activities
D)Academics + related jobs

will be easier for a gaijin to get than other jobs. With other jobs, you may have a tougher time, because Japanese companies want Japanese workers - there's no communication problems, there's no having to deal with 'unexpected gaijin behavior' and so on. Can gaijins get jobs that don't involve the above categories? Sure they can. It just might be a little harder to get than if they were in America, and their Japanese skill would likely have to be top notch.

I would also like to add that the vast majority of the Japanese public generally accepts what happened in Nanjing, as well as the comfort women issue and all that. It's the bigheaded, conservative politicians in Japan that are being so stubborn on those issues, and thats why the media covers it so often.

One more thing about foreigners working in normal careers in Japan, Japanese companies prefer to hire employees fresh out of school who they can mold and shape into what they want. Employees then spend the rest of their lives (usually) slowly working their way up.

Why is it that Kawaiineko always posts with this condenscending air of "I already know everything and have researched everything, but am just going to ask anyway." If you think you know everything then why ask? Seriously, the attitude really annoys me.

I`ll answer this just to get a lot of the silliness and misperceptions out of it.

Actually, no. Rape is very rare. Date rape is the most common type of rape in Japan, and even it is rare. Obviously *females* get raped more easily than males - it`s that way in EVERY country.
You can feel safe walking around dark alleys alone at night. The cops generally won`t touch date rape cases, as there is always a lot of hearsay involved - "She agreed to it?!?" "No, he forced me!" blah blah blah. And no real way to tell which side is telling the truth.

No, it`s very illegal. If you`re accused, you`re pretty much tried and convicted that very day, lose your job, and basically have your life ruined. Women falsely accusing men to get money out of them is actually a pretty big problem. That certainly wouldn`t be the case if it were legal.

I covered this quite in depth in another thread - Here is what I said there (Or at least in the most recent incarnation of the same explanation.)
A lot of the "women treated unfairly" stuff is really a myth based on misinterpretation. I`ve covered it a lot in other topics, but basically from a "western" viewpoint, it seems that no one can believe a woman would ever possibly CHOOSE to leave her job and stay at home once she is married/has children. In their eyes, it looks to be "oppression"... Even though the women choose to do so of their own free will. So this big "women are inferior in Japan!" talk spreads. Most women choose to stay home with the kids. Some don`t. Most women are content to take a lower salary because of the lack of strings attached to it - if the company is paying you a lot there is a lot more pressure to continue working... They`ve invested a lot in you. But if it`s lower to begin with (I`m talking like 85% of the average male salary, not like incredibly low), there is very little pressure to keep working once you decide to quit for family reasons. Employers expect it, so everyone parts on good terms. There are companies out there that pay women full salaries - sometimes in the same company there will be two standards - and those are the type of women who generally continue to work. The only reason the lower salary is more common is because the women themselves PREFER it as it takes the pressure off of them in the future.


I`ve never met a man who has actually thought women were inferior. Even the older generations - they are wane to put responsibility on young women who join companies - mainly for the reasons I have quoted myself about. This doesn`t mean they think they are inferior. It means that they know from experience what generally happens. Superior/inferior has virtually nothing to do with it.

My husband is Japanese, quite traditional, from a traditional family, raised in a small village pretty much isolated from city influence.
He doesn`t think I`m inferior, and is in fact quite jealous of the choices available to me. He is expected to work, but I can choose to either stay home, work, continue my education, etc.
Even in the village where he was raised, it`s generally the women who are actually in charge.

What is saying that they don`t? Most of the time foreigners DON`T speak the language well enough to do anything but cause problems in a regular company. The problem isn`t with the race/nationality of the person, it has to do with the simple question of whether they can communicate well enough to understand their job and to work as part of a team - communicating with their superiors and co-workers. I know some non-Japanese who work in Japanese companies quite normally with no problems at all. They speak Japanese fluently. I myself have worked a number of *normal* jobs here in Japan - but am also fluent.
If you can`t speak to your co-workers, you`re going to have trouble. If you can`t read paperwork, or write it, you`re not going to be hired. As most foreigners cannot do this, it is pretty safe for the company to take your race as an outward sign that they need to be careful.

I have yet to meet anyone that acted at all afraid of me here in Japan. However, I did encounter some people who were afraid of my husband based on his race when we visited the US, as well as plenty of people who were afraid of my black friend`s father - in the US.

I guess 10 years of living here means ABSOLUTELY nothing. You haven`t even *been* to Japan, and yet you purport to know EVERYTHING about life here. Guess I should listen to you to find out what it`s *really* like here. :rolleyes:

Really - you ask questions, and then get angry at anyone that gives you an answer that is at all different from the one you want/expect based on your out of date research.

Actually, China has never invaded Japan.
It seems that you want more to insult Japan than to actually learn anything about it. There is so much wrong in the above quote that I don`t even know where to begin. I suggest you actually do some real research on history. You know, the stuff with actual documentation, which isn`t the ranting of some online site. You do realize that they were at war fighting in China and Korea, right? Do you really think that attractiveness had anything to do with ANYTHING?
You do realize that 1) "comfort women" were already employed as prostitutes by people in their own countries. and 2) They were paid and not killed. (Some were even able to save up tons of money) - really, even Korea (which hates Japan) agrees with those points. Japan in general is NOT in denial over most of this, if any.

I`ll bet you also believe that all Japanese schools uses that one textbook that there was an uproar about. (They don`t.)

Do you actually want to live in Japan? Because it really seems like you dislike pretty much everything about Japan - whether it is based in fact or not.

wow u seriouse?!!!!
well cant they change-everyone knws som things are scary rather its of wat u can understand and of wat u cant...
its life!!!!!!get use to the fact there are different types of races and sexes

First off i never claimed to know everything you jerk. I never said I did. I said Japanese fear foreigners because they've had bad experience in their history with foreigners. I said that possibly that could result to possible prejudice in Japan. I was asking how bad it actually was, if it was true or if it was just stereotypes. I didn't know whether it was true or not, that's why I asked. You have no right to make assumptions about me when you don't know the first thing about me. People here HAVE said that sexism is prevalent in Japanese culture to an extent because of the glass ceiling thing with careers and females.

I didn't say I know everything; that's your perception. You judging me and making assumptions about me is really beginning to annoy me too!

You assume I've done research on every single aspect of Japanese culture when I haven't! The reason I made this post to begin with was to find out how true it was regarding prejudice and sexism in Japan. Obviously prejudice is a stereotype; they fear foreigners rather then act bias and condescending toward them.

I've done SOME research I haven't done all of the research. What I said was merely my own perspective on it from what I've heard from other people; I then interpret it the best I know how from my own personal view. Essentially it's my opinion; fyi genius an opinion isn't fact, it's just what a person THINKS personally on a subject you baka!

Yeah I've never moved to Japan but just because I have my own perspective based upon what I've heard doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. As said before the reason I started this post was so I could find out if sexism and prejudice run rampant in Japan like many gajin think. I want to see how true it was.


Go screw yourself baka and stop making assumptions about me.

First of all I`ll say I don`t want this to dissolve into a flame war, and I don`t plan to respond to this in an angry way. I will simply point things out in a factual way. You can choose to accept them or not.

You never say "I know everything." However, you do repeatedly say "I know" something or other. This is saying that you know something. As you say that repeatedly on just about every part of your message, it implies that you know about all the things you are "asking" about.

Yes, but you say (And I quote)
That doesn`t sound like "I don`t know if this is true or not." You are saying that Japanese people DO have a fear of foreigners. They DO treat women as inferior. And if anyone says that you are not right, that THEY are wrong.
I say this is wrong, and I say it based on experience. Therefore, the attitude in statements like that frustrates me because it implies that you know something which you clearly do not.

And I have done my very best to explain these things, as (as far as I can see) these statements are coming from either a) people who have never been to Japan, or b) Men who don`t know how Japanese women actually feel or think about these things. (and who admit it)

If you don`t want people to think you are saying that you know all these things, then please stop saying "I know this" or "I know that" - especially when you really don`t. I do indeed agree that you don`t know much about Japan. It`s just the way you write it that is irritating to me. If you want to know something, ask a question, don`t say "I know this" and then expect an answer that fits perfectly inside of what you say you know.

I haven`t assumed anything like that. I am only assuming that you actually meant "I know" when you typed it. It is clear that you don`t actually know these things, as your information is incorrect. I will ask again, politely, that you not say "I know such and such" when you do not know whether it is true or a total fabrication.

And again, despite two people - who both are actually IN Japan - telling you so far that Japanese people do not fear foreigners, you state it as a fact. No one fears foreigners here. But yet, you somehow refuse to accept this. Most likely because you "know" that they do fear foreigners. This is what frustrates me. People are answering you, telling you that it isn`t the case, and you STILL state that you KNOW it`s true.

Yes, but an opinion isn`t generally stated as fact - You normally say "I have heard" or "I think" or "It`s my opinion that..." NOT "I know".

That is perfectly fine. I have no complaints with the reason for this thread - my complaint is that you won`t believe anyone when they tell you that your opinion/perspective isn`t actually true. Which is why I asked why you even asked - if the answer doesn`t go along with the opinion you have formed, you ignore or discount it.

I`ll pass on the screwing myself part.

I should also like to add that only 10% of the posters on this forum have actually been to Japan, and probably only about 3% have ever lived there for a reasonable amount of time. It's terribly difficult to get a good perspective on Japan if you've never set foot on one of their islands. Point is, even though there are some people here who know a lot about Japanese culture, only those that have lived in Japan should be the ones that you trust regarding 'living in Japan' questions.

Despite their good intentions, many people get skewed perspectives about Japan either from media or just from heresy and rumor. Just because AnimeDude22 says that Japanese fear foreigners, doesn't mean it's true.

Also many people who have been on JF for a reasonable amount of time have seen and responded to these issues over and over again.

So try not to take it personally when people get really passionate about their opinions.

I said I know it's true AFTER people living in Japan clarify this to me. I said "I know this" because it's what I've been told, it's what I ASSUME to be true ( I don't know whether it's right or wrong, that's why I ask). Did you happen to miss the part where it said that all of that was my opinion, and I just said that when "I know about this or that" with Japanese culture that's it's my opinion (doesn't make it right or wrong).

I TOLD people I didn't know whether it was true and that I wasn't trying to start things. If people become oversensitive and react in a wrong way, that's not my fault; I can't wave a wand and control how receptive they'll be to reacting to what is being typed. This is what is being told to me.

I made this post to see how true the rumors of racism and sexism are in Japan. I believe (are you happy now or are you going to verbally attack me and lecture me for this too) were in Japan that sexism does exist in Japan because of the glass ceiling in Japan.

I believe men in Japan do view themselves as the superior gender, because it's how they're raised and it's what the culture tells them, so it influences them. I could be wrong with all of this because when I say "I know" it's how
I'm phrasing what I believe based upon what's been told to me. It's my opinion I didn't say it was right or wrong.

Oh and nyorin some of the quotes you posted earlier were from a completely different person on this forum. Those words weren't typed by me with some of those phrases. Oh yeah with the last part if you know anything about the English language is called sarcasm. I really don't like you; you've made assumptions about me and judged me ever since I came to this forum. You don't agree with what I say, fine. That doesn't give you the right to act like a jerk to me, that's why I get angry with you. To me you're a judgmental condescending ass.

Oh and what I tend to do in Japan falls under two of the job categories recommended for
foreigners: entertainer, hostess and entrepeneur. Believe it or not when people don't act like complete jerks to me and don't incessantly ASSUME things about me (judging me as a result; oh since when did nyorin take the position of God? we'd all be screwed if you were God)

Kawaiineko - I seriously and honestly believe that you need some sort of anger management help of some sort. I mean this entirely truthfully, and not in an insulting way. I am only concerned.

Everything I quoted came directly from your messages. If you do not think so, please read over the messages you have posted - and if you don`t recall writing those things I would check who has been using your account.

The one who has problems with over reacting is you - You reacted the same way in the food topic (And no, it wasn`t in response to anything I said, so you can`t blame it on me.)

I don`t understand your preoccupation with people assuming things about you... I have no idea what you think we`re assuming, but so far I have done nothing but respond directly to things you have specifically written.

Anyway, I will continue to reply to your posts and the posts of others in order to spread facts and to try to eliminate misconceptions and stereotypes. I do indeed live in Japan, have lived here quite a while, and I really don`t like people spreading misinformation about the country I call home. If you happen to fall into that category, I`m not going to give you special treatment. Already someone has posted in this thread in response to something you have said, taking it as a statement of fact (because that is how the message was worded - it doesn`t matter what your intent was.)

Either way, I will state for the record in reply to your questions.... No, wait. Actually, I have already addressed all the bits. If anyone actually wants to know the answers to Kawaiineko`s questions, or wants to know the ACTUAL state of things in Japan, please read what I, Jason, and Hatredcopter have written.
Kawaiineko is stating opinion and hearsay as fact - It should be taken with a grain of salt.

Okay you have done nothing but make assumptions about me (whether you meant to or not). When I say you quoted a different user with some of the quotes you made, two of them weren't quotes I made, those were from a separate user. I'm not asking for "special treatment".

I don't appreciate it when people make assumptions about me, it comes of as condescending and really judgmental and you don't know anything about my life. Yeah I'm well aware I don't know alot of the Japanese culture because I'm not immersed in it. However I am attempting to learn about it which is why I make these posts.

Then people act condescending and start assuming things about me and start "bashing" me, and I really don't appreciate being treated that way. People take things the wrong way then they take it out on me.

When you made the assumption that I was arrogant, well that's really wrong, because if you met me in real life, I'm really humble. Further clarification regarding this.....what I put were my own personal thoughts on the topic, my opinions. I never said I was right or wrong.

When I said "I know" I never meant to imply "I'm right, everybody else is wrong". Not really, that
was what I believed based upon what was told. I didn't know how true these things were (regarding prejudice and sexism in Japan) that's why I asked, because I didn't know. What I said was merely opinion, I never claimed I was right or wrong, I was unsure. If people can't understand that, well sorry but they'll just have to deal.

If you're going to say Japan is a utopia, I seriously doubt it. Sadly there is no place like that on earth. Every culture in the world is going to be doing something that is unethical in some
shape or form. There isn't a culture in the world who thinks that women aren't the inferior gender. People always seem to think a male is perfect, stronger, better simply because of their gender which is wrong. They have weaknesses and flaws too. For people to look down on women (or men) because of their gender is wrong. For people to look down on somebody because if their race is wrong; none of these practices are ethical; it makes the group feel inferior as a human being.

Ah, I see now which quotes you were talking about - back in the first post I made in this topic right? I guess I should have clarified that they weren`t from you. I know they weren`t. But they were points that I felt needed to be addressed. I didn`t mean to present them as being quotes from you.

I *know* you don`t know all that much about Japanese culture. I would love to help you learn about it, and to help answer your questions. My frustration is rooted in the fact that even when someone (not just me) states fact that does not follow your "opinion" that was stated in another message... You either totally ignore it, or say they have to be wrong.
Just because some of the information we give you (The "we" meaning those who actually have first hand knowledge of life in Japan.) may not go along with something you read somewhere else does not make it false. Chances are, the information you`ve picked up elsewhere is either just someone repeating stereotypes, or is very out of date.

I am female, and I am not Japanese, AND I have worked in several different companies here. My husband is also Japanese, and from a traditional family. I can TELL you, accurately, from personal experience what it is actually like here to be a foreign woman, and how women are actually treated. But even though I gave you a lot of information, you just skipped over it and continued to say you "know" such and such.

I`m not trying to bash you, or even show any sort of anger toward you. I apologize if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but we only communicate via the written word here. I have no other means to determine what you want to say.

I don`t like editing my posts, as it leaves a lot open to complaint later...
So I am posting a second message in reply to the additions to Kawaiineko`s previous post. (I guess I wrote the first message while the edit was taking place.)

I have never, and never will say Japan is a utopia. I live here, I know better than that. However, I will defend complaints about Japan that are not really truthful.

You are right about people often thinking that females rank below men in most cultures. The problem is *practice* and how much that actually comes into play in modern life. If you go back so far with any culture, and you`re going to hit that sort of thing. But it is incredibly unfair to assume that because at some point in the past certain values were prevalent, that they are STILL the same in the present. That is the case with Japan - As with ANY culture, that sort of thinking was quite strong... in the past. Your question, I assume, is about the present - correct? Yes, I`m sure there are men out there who think that way... But they are not the majority. In *modern* Japanese culture, there really is no strong discrimination against women. There are, however, things that will LOOK that way to western eyes. This is what I was talking when I quoted myself. In general, the western woman wants to have a career, wants to be independent, etc etc. In general, the Japanese woman does not. Even with those choices available to her - as they are in this modern day and age - most women choose to follow a traditional path. This really has nothing to do with men`s opinions, or a glass ceiling. Instead, it`s choice.

As for race - well, I think that most everyone has made it clear that Japanese are NOT afraid of foreigners. When it comes to employment, I really think Hatredcopter worded it best - After all, what is the advantage of hiring someone from abroad when there are plenty of qualified Japanese wanting the job? I imagine if you can reliably do all the same work as a Japanese employee, are fully qualified, and don`t bring any extra work to the company... They would treat you exactly the same as they treat any other employee. I have friends who are wonderful examples of this.
It`s not race as much as it is not being able to actually do the same work, on the same level as a Japanese person applying for the job... Or requiring a lot of work from the company side (visas, etc.) Unless there is an advantage to hiring you over someone else, you`re probably not going to get the job.

Special treatment based on your race is another form of racism - even if it is in your favor.

Geez no one can discuss things without fighting....

First I am an adult. Second, everybody has pet peeves. When you strike these nerves with people, they're going to take offense to it, because it's their pet peeve. My pet peeve is when people make assumptions about me or come off as judgmental or condescending. People here, whether they meant to or not, have come off that way when responding to me, and it offended me.

Regarding the gajin thing.....

No I'm not saying that a gajin deserves special treatment. What I'm saying
is if they are fully fluent in Japanese, know Japanese etiquette, and can do the job just as well as a Japanese, then to not hire simply because they're a gajin IS prejudice. I'm not saying Japanese people do this, I'm merely speaking hypothetically to prove a point.

I'm also not saying all cultures currently believe females as the inferior gender. However their past thinking on that probably does influence the culture to an extent (not nearly as heavily, but I believe the past will always effect a person's life, or this case a culture's view of thinking to an extent).

Well unfortunatelly it's true that there's still discrimination against women,all across the world.But women slowly are taking control,they are even presidents now in many countries,so I believe soon that discrimination will be over.And It seens like ALL countries treat foreigners bad,it's like that here,in USA,why in japan would be different?

Well. I don't recall saying u did. But still, I think you misunderstood my way of expressing the 'loving women'-part.
My impression of Japan, has mostly been their extreme focus on respect. Therefore I was surprised, when it was posted, that raping is a ''normal'' (don't get me wrong) thing.

So, why are you pinning down Japan when you say that other cultures see it the same way?

I think the reason there is so much prejudice in the United States is because many foreigners here immigrate illegally. They don't try to register for citizenship as an alien first off (some don't, not saying all); I don't think Americans are fond of that because it's just unethical.

Second many foreigners here are unwilling to adapt to the American lifestyle. By this I mean, they won't try to learn English so that they can communicate with other people here. True, U.S. is a melting pot, but the official language in the United States is English. If they're going to live here, they can at least learn to communicate in our language. I don't mean they have to forsake traditions from their culture and the country they used to live in. If they speak another language besides English, then that would prove to be a great asset to them, so they shouldn't forsake their native tongue.

That's why I'm trying to learn Japanese; when in Rome, do as the Romans do. However, if I speak to them in Japanese (their native tongue) and I ask them to speak in English (if they're able) I think that would be the respectful thing to do. I don't think it would be asking a huge request for them to speak in English if they're able because I was respectful enough to speak to them in their language, which made communication easier for them; it works both ways.

Because to an extent sexism is a problem in Japan. There is the glass ceiling issue. Yes there are some Japanese women who out of choice leave their careers/job because they want to have a husband and raise a family. However, I believe there are Japanese women who put their careers first and desire to go as far as is possible in the career field they chose. However simply because they're female, they can't go any farther; to an extent I believe Japanese men think Japanese women are somehow less capable of doing the job because they're female (they don't think they're smart enough or skilled enough, etc.; these are just examples I can think of, I could be wrong regarding this topic).

You really just don`t get what I`m saying....

It`s not "some" women choosing to quit and raise their family. It`s the overwhelming majority.
Take, for example, my husband`s company. In the year he was hired, and the two following years, they hired a total of 42 women. (About the same number of men.) The company has a female manager, and there is no "glass ceiling" preventing them from rising up in the ranks.

Now, five years later, only EIGHT of those women still work there. ALL the others quit of their own volition within those 5 years. The reasons? "Marriage" and "To raise a child" are the overwhelming choices. There were a couple of women who had medical reasons, and a few who just randomly quit, etc. None were fired.

Of the eight remaining, one of them is on my husband`s team, and is getting married next month. The company is trying very very hard to convince her to stay, offering her big bonuses, and literally begging.... She`s an excellent programmer. But she has said that she will most likely be leaving within a couple months of the wedding.

This is pretty much the case all over Japan. Women quit - whether the company wants them to or not - when they get married or have children. Because the women *plan* to do this, they don`t WANT a lot of responsibility on their heads to have to feel bad about when they leave. (Which is very responsible of them.)

I don`t believe that "women`s rights" has to fit the mold of, say, the US in order to exist.

(By the way, out of the 46 men hired during the same 3 year period - only 6 of them have quit.)

It does indeed take longer for a company to trust a woman with high-responsiblity work... Because most of the time they only hang around for as long as a "termporary" worker. Temporary workers, regardless of their gender, also aren`t trusted with important long-term work. The company would be stupid to do so. Imagine giving an important project to someone who just decides to leave in the middle of it!
But after the woman has married and expressed that she will not be leaving, or the temporary worker becomes a full fledged employee... They are treated the same as any other employee.

"smart enough" or "skilled enough" isn`t an issue. It`s the normal rate at which women leave their jobs, regardless of their skill.

Why do you even care about the status of Japanese women? You're not Japanese. Even if women were treated like complete crap in Japan, you're a gaijin and you wouldn't be treated the same way as a Japanese woman, so you can relax.

That's very interesting Nyororin, as that was the trend in Japan, but, as I am sure you know, the general female population is experiencing a different phenomenon now. In my experience attitudes about gender are very traditional in Nagoya, more than even places like Kyoto, which are very traditional, but only on the surface.

The problem happening in Japan now is women have become very skilled an independent, and their desire to give up their freedoms as self-sustaining, fun-loving people to raise a family is waning. Twenty years ago there was a term used for single women over 25: "Christmas Cake". No one wants to eat Christmas Cake (a Japanese "tradition") the day after Christmas. Meaning, if you weren't married by the age of 25, you were an old maid. Nowdays that term is completely outdated, and women are waiting until thier 30s to settle down... if they settle down at all.

On top of that, the cost of living is so high families are having one child instead of multiple children, and schools are shutting down in droves. There has basically been a hiring-freeze of new public school teachers and kids today can't imagine having a teacher in their 20s. All are basically older men and women.

I am not questioning your husband's company's situation. That is a common trend, and maybe the women who are waiting to "settle down" are in the "less-skilled" area. I know salary-men that get three weeks off a year and never use a day, but all the secretaries and office assistants (women) are allowed to use up every day, and with their wages they can go to Guam, Hawaii, Asia, etc...

Heck, why would I want to give all that up to sit at home all day while my husband works 12 hours a day and I raise a kid alone?

I think you misunderstand and simplify the ethnic tensions in the US in many ways, but first of all, the US doesn't actually have an official language.

Nyororin,
You may have been here for a long time and I only for a short time, but you are still just one gaijin lady living in Japan. There are lots of us out there and we may have different experiences.
I personally have seen people in Japan that looked terrified of me and have been denied entry into places simply on being a gaijin. I have seen signs outside of businesses (mostly businesses that I don't want to patonize) that say "Japanese Only." I was also told by someone in my company that it is more difficult to place female ALTs than male ALTs. Less Boards of Education are interested in women. I don't think kawaiineko's fears are completely unfounded.

gaijzilla.com

You may be right with the other bits - Obviously I haven`t experienced everything......

However, the quoted bit is DEFINITELY without a doubt wrong.
Schools WANT female teachers. They will almost always choose a female teacher over a male. It gets left out of English ads, but they`ll even say it in the original Japanese ones (which I have translated so many of I cannot even begin to count.)

In the experience of every non-Japanese I have ever spoken to here... You have 5 times better a chance to be hired if your female - and double that if you`re blonde.

Just out of curiosity - What sort of places have you been refused entry to? And under what circumstances?

[quote=Nyororin;158203]In the experience of every non-Japanese I have ever spoken to here... You have 5 times better a chance to be hired if your female - and double that if you`re blonde.
[quote]

This probably is the case for ppl who are trying to be an english teacher in Japan.

But for other types of Job especially in the I.T. , men are likely to be hired than female and that is a fact.

[quote=samokan;158787][quote=Nyororin;158203]In the experience of every non-Japanese I have ever spoken to here... You have 5 times better a chance to be hired if your female - and double that if you`re blonde.
But he`s not talking about IT. He`s talking about ALT - English teachers.

There are fewer women going into IT, which is part of it, along with their leaving work at the drop of a hat.