Romance in Japan... Is reality always bitter?
 

Alrite... Ladies n Gentleman, Guys n Gals... What do you think about romance in Japan? How is it like having BF or GF?

Lately I've been reading lots of romantic mangas.

Most of the plot are based on school life and they were written as if japanese guys are either perverted or really idiot who doesn't even know what a girl want. On the other hand, the girls, in manga, are very pretty, yet they fight each other to be GF of those good-for-nothing male lead.

Guys... I mean no offense here. I know most of japan guys are really bright and talented. But how do you guys feel about those character in manga. Are there such boy n girl in Japan? Or are they just wild imagination of over-perverted mangaka's thoughts?

Girls.. how about you all? Do you think you will do something like that in those manga if you like a guy? How do you feel about those manga? What kinda guy you want as your BF?

I'm really curious about this since I read a few romance manga. I read I''s, Suzuka and a few more. If you know better manga let me know too. Hope to hear what you all have to say about this.

P.S. I'm not japanese nor live in Japan. So, I know nothing about this. Pls do care to share some experience. And I would like to have a few friend who wanna talk about this with me. Matta ne. :D :vsign: :rheart:

That's painfully obvious.

You're comparing comic books and reality. That's your first problem.

And it's mata ne :)

I have no idea either... but I'm guessing that manga is not a reliable way to gain insight into Japanese culture.

Also... how is Singapore culture?

Maybe I'd consider the Japanese way more "normal" and the Singapore way "messed up"? In other words... whatever the reality is... it's best not to be judgemental.

Japanese guys are very shy and according to my wife have no clue as to what Japanese girls want.
A lot of Japanese (not all) are immature due to their upbringing and culture. I think this is the generalization you see in manga. It might be a little true but not everyone is this way.

I'm sorry, I meant a lot of Japanese girls.

Interesting... If I were to generalise based on my experiences, I would conclude that Japanese women are MORE mature than Western.

I think the reality is that neither of our experiences count for much when making such generalisations.

I also would like some more info on this part of the culture as this kind of stuff facinates me.

@bELyVIS- You commented that your wife said that Japanese men didn't know what the girls wanted. Could you expand on this please.

Actually, my (Japanese) girlfriend has said this a lot too.

She says that in physique, Japanese males look weak (silly, effeminate hairstyles and stupid trendy clothes), and they don't possess qualities she considers manly, like any southern gentleman should be an expert in - independence, unwavering loyalty, honesty and honor, utmost respect for women, chivalry, fatherly qualities, decisive, stuff like that.

Japanese guys tend to be effeminate, clingy, and immature. And in general, they really don't know how to make a woman happy - they're mama's boys.

You won't read this in any book, but she said that Japanese men still subscribe to the Samurai way of treating women, as compared to the European knight; it's alright to love your wife and defend her honor, but you're above her and you shouldn't show too much love.

Her words, not mine

Like I asked... is reality always bitter? I dun think so... I have seen such guy n girl outside... but ya... obviously it's rare... but I was jux wondering if they r common in Japan...

Plus, hey you know what? Literature and Noval (or even manga) reflects the real culture of the writer's native country.

And about that "mata ne", I will take note for now... but most translation books and subtitles (even in google translate) show "matta ne". Anyway, thx for you care.


Haha.. ya... totally agree... Singapore is not jux messed up... they are buying love with money... girls think guy as bank... and loving a normal guy, they feel like investing in a sure losing market... poor guys...

Anyway.. I'm not Singaporean also... I jux live here... :mtongue:

All girls do not want the same thing, so it is a bit silly to say that guys don`t know what girls want. It`s ALWAYS going to be hit or miss, both ways. Some people are better at hitting - some miss a lot. That`s life.

I think it`s also very true that most people don`t really know what they want - they just expect their partner to figure it out magically.

ETA;
It is mata ne, not matta ne. Unless you want to say "You waited, didn`t you?" - which is what using matta would imply.
If it`s written by someone as matta - then they`re wrong.

Manga's fantasy, so how could it possibly compare to reality?? Everyones perfect in movies and books, but in reality, everyone has flaws even in Japan, everywhere. I personally like to read manga's nice stories, nice characters, but I don't think much more than that.

I think your or your girlfriend's perceptions are as valid as an anime.

Seriously that's some ego you've got there. Reminds me of the South Park episode when the Japanese manage to inflitrate America by telling the Americans they all have big penises.

Yes, reality is often bittersweet. People make stupid choices in novels.

I'd say literature more accurately reflects the author's fantasies than reality.

This is actually 100% true. Guys are, more often than not, perverted idiots. But if they're attractive or confident enough, girls will swarm over a guy that'll treat them like dirt. They're seeking to avoid puppy-dog wimpy guys, and in the process hit the other end of the spectrum - complete assholes. I'm not blaming women, but these days it must be difficult to find a decent man.

What? :D

Bwahahaha. I don't even know where to start.

You're telling me my girlfriend, who's Japanese born and bred, has perceptions about as valid as a cartoon? You, sir, are an idiot.

I know you've got a hard-on for the Japanese, but if you feel that your knowledge about Japanese males is better than a Japanese girl's, please, don't let me stop you brother. Have you dated enough Japanese men to know better than her?

Twat.

While she might come from a position which she can speak about the subject with some insight... if those words you wrote are indeed hers, and if she was speaking on behalf of ALL Japanese women rather than just herself then yes.. her perceptions are as valid as an anime's.

I'm glad you rephrased your argument.

No, she's not speaking on behalf of all Japanese women. Did I ever say she did? Cridgit asked for some insight, and I gave insight on the subject from the only Japanese female that I have contact with on a regular basis. A very modest female who doesn't pretend to speak for anyone but herself.

Well I felt that you presented her perceptions in a matter of fact way.

Whatever the truth is. There are "manly" Japanese males in the way you've described.

Which in your words means being "independent, of unwavering loyalty, honesty and honor, utmost respect for women, chivalry, fatherly qualities, decisive, stuff like that."

That goes for physique too.

I always present things matter of factly. It's a fact that she perceives Japanese males to be unmanly - it is not a fact that there are no manly Japanese males - I didn't think such an obvious point needed to be argued. But it's also a fact that the same values and ideals are not instilled in Japanese men as are men from other countries. And Japanese men tend to be shorter and have weaker physiques than their white and black counterparts. Tend to.

Seeing as how I'm not Japanese and I don't know any Japanese males, I didn't feel as if I needed to inject my personal opinion on the matter.

Japanese men tend to have smaller physiques than men from some other countries, but "weak" is a judgment call. So is "silly" and "effeminate". Her tastes are obviously coming into play here, and it is clear (after seeing pictures you posted) why she is dating you and not a "typical" Japanese guy.

If all Japanese women thought this way of all Japanese men, this island country would have been decimated ages ago.

Shoot yeah. I wouldn't apply the word weak, personally, and I've heard they're getting taller these days. Her tastes are definitely coming into play, but I have to agree, even Japanese fashion and models stress coolness in a more feminine way, with the slender bodies and feathered bangs and stuff.

Wasn't arguing it... just providing balance.

And it's also a fact that Americans tend to be more overweight and poorly educated than their Japanese counterparts. Again... not arguing just providing balance to your girlfriend's perception.

Well I do know Japanese males (as well as females) and so I felt I needed to inject mine.

Ah! come on... I wanted to know about those who have such experiences... because this is really strange to me... for me.. I nvr really fall in love with any girl for 18yrs but finally I did. And I did ask her out after we met 2nd time... well, it turned out pretty perfect and we've been together for 3yrs now... you could say I'm pretty much suck at my romance life... I didnt really get any experience of hardship to conqure a girl heart nor had any remarkable memories so far.

So, I wanna know how it is like getting into alot of trouble like in manga and being love by a girl so much without knowing it.

Come on, you too, girls... if you have someone you love so much yet still that person ignored you.. shared with me how you feeling... I wanna hear them out and probably could give some advice from a guy point of view...

ja... :vsign:

I am baseing my opinion on my observations while dating and on my friends. Please don't misunderstand that I feel this is a bad thing. It just is a cultural thing. I have never seen so many 30 year old women carrying "Kitty Chan" purses, and where else is "Kawaii" so important?
In America I think we push the girls to grow up faster. This explains why you see 10 year olds wearing mini skirts and make up. This is also a cultural thing. Not good or bad in my opinion, just different.
Of course there are always exceptions to every rule, but that is what generalizations do. They take what is most prevalant in a society and use that to describe it.

My wife agrees with this too. She says most (again not all) wants a woman to take care of them and that the woman should just agree with him even if it is something that she really is against. Also, she feels that Japanese men are not taught to show their feelings and that loving their woman is just something they should know and never should have to show.
My wife was amazed that I told my Japanese friends that I loved her even when she was sitting right there. She told me that it would never happen if she was with a Japanese guy.
Have you ever heard of a Narita divorce? That is when newlyweds come back from a honeymoon only to get a divorce. On the honeymoon the woman must take charge because the guy is too scared or withdrawn to ask for anything and the woman takes this as a sign of weakness. She sees that her life will be this way and decides to leave.
On the other hand, Japanese women are fed this stuff about western men being a certain way too (strong, straight forward, loving. etc). This is also a generalization.
As for the comment about Japan would have died out if the women felt this way about Japanese men. Japan has been a closed society until recently. If you don't see anything different you can't miss it and if you have no choice you take what is available.
I can see that Japan is starting to act more westernized and the younger people are changing. I don't know if it is good or bad but maybe we will lose what makes Japan so beautiful and unique. Just my opinion.

I find that very interesting. Also, if I was a woman, I would find the whole "weak guy" thing very frustrating. Perhaps, and this is just a thought, that since it was such a closed society, that is all they were used to and that's all they expected. But now since they are seeing what the rest of the world is like (western I suppose*for some reason I always think this is America but I know it's not*) that they slowly changing, some faster than others. Perhaps its always been there (annoyed at the weak guy) and its finally surfacing because they have an alternative. This is just a thought, please don't shoot me.

I'm not misunderstanding... just disagreeing with your opinion based on your observations/perceptions simply because my perceptions/observations are completely different and I'm not willing to jump to any conclusions based on them.

Why, might I ask, are you so determined to defend the Japanese at each and every turn?

Wait... are you implying that Westerners are inherently physically superior and that now that Japan has opened up Japanese women now "know what they're missing out on?"

Really?

Replace Japan with another nation and I'd be equally defensive if I thought that people were being judgemental or overly simplistic. It just so happens that I'm studying Japanese at university, have many Japanese friends and this is the Japan forum. Go figure.

If it were generalizations about America, I doubt you'd defend us with as much fervor. Hell, I'm beginning to believe that you're learning Japanese and so on because of an obsession for Japan - you know those guys that say "as an otaku, naturally I believe Japan to be superior". I think you've got the hots for Japan, and even when you don't have something to add to the discussion, you say "well our opinions are different", or playing moderator and adding some kind of "balance" (which consists of you saying 'I'm adding balance') that you feel is necessary.

Do you have an opinion on the matter?

You obviously didn't see the numeruous threads when that Muslim guy (sorry forgot his actual nationality) noodle among others was being all anti-American and I was one of those that defended her from the ludicrous assertions being made. I mean I may be left leaning politically but ANY comment that's unfair I will say something.

There was also that Olympic thread in which I defended America's right to take pride in the fact that they won the most medals when in fact China won the official medal table which values gold first.

Then there were the times when Tenchu was giving Australian Aborigines a hard time. Not to mention the many anti-Islamic statements he makes in which I say something everytime.

By the way, go f*ck yourself. I couldn't care less what you think of me.

Obviously I didn't see those threads. Kudos.

I only feel this way about you because you seem to only pop in a thread, say "no, you're wrong about the Japanese", then leave.

Ronin, I think a cooling-off period is in order. Try stepping away from the keyboard and taking a few deep, cleansing breaths.

Have you lived in Japan? Or just make your opinions from what you hear? As far as generalizations, they are generally right. You can't judge every individual but stereotypes are made from observing the whole culture.

This is how threads get closed. Cool off gents.

No I don't base my opinions on what I hear. I base my opinion on real experiences with Japanese people some of whom are close friends (male AND female). Experiences which contradict your perception. Whether generalisations are right or not depends on what they are, who's making them and what they're based on.

So you base them on Japanese people who live outside of Japan. Japanese who live outside Japan are different, they are more open minded.
My opinion is based on living there, having Japanese friends (both male and female) who have lived outside Japan and mostly who lived in Japan all their lives.
You can't make an informed opinion on a culture if you never lived there.

Interesting thread!

I've been to Japan many times and I've also lived with over 50 Japanese girls who were in Canada for their working holiday or student visa. (Long story!)

For the most part, the girls that I've met in Canada expressed similar opinions as those stated by bELyVIS and Keaton421. Meanwhile, I've also met girls in Japan who liked the Japanese men the way they were and scoffed at the girls who were living outside of Japan. Some even called them traitors.

In any event, I think bELyVIS hit it on the spot with this statement.

Thank you. And we want to hear more about the 50 girls!;)

Haha, Here Here!