Script for Nihongo Dekimasu

[MMM]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

There's no difference in meaning, just in sound. 鳴ってる is technically a contraction, like how "cannot"->"can't."

The difference is
natteru
natteiru

I mean, that last part strikes me as a weird thing to type, but that's really the only difference: pronunciation.

I suppose you could say the meaning changes in that the contraction is more slangy. You wouldn't say 鳴ってる in a speech. You'd say 鳴っている instead, because it's technically correct. The other is "lazy Japanese."

Sashimister said he's just being picky because it's dictation. It's just like if you were taking dictation of some English, and the speaker said "can't." If this were a business letter and you were his secretary, you'd probably type "cannot." But, if you were transcribing for the hearing impaired, you'd probably stick with what he actually said: "can't."

I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by MMM

I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

No problem. You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours.

As for whether this confuses students of Japanese, I'm not sure. I did not get hung up on it. I asked a friend a few questions about something in a manga (my profs refused to help on the basis that they didn't want to encourage poor grammar (or maybe because I asked what クソばば meant )).

Still, I had had linguistics classes already, so I self-explained a ton of novel Japanese constructions by finding analogues in English. Not so I could remember the constructions more easily, but so my mind wouldn't nag me with "that makes no sense! that is illogical!"

But now that you mention it, I think maybe I've seen people thinking something like 食べてる is a dictionary form after having seen verbs like 育てる.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by MMM

I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

I imagine that it would be. I've never studied Japanese as a foreign language so you guys would know better.

I don't think a native speaker would say 鳴っているぞ～　in any natural situation in the first place. I wouldn't. This is because the "dictionary" form いる　and the "informal" sentence ender ぞ create an awkward imbalance between them.

鳴ってるぞ～ sounds much more natural and in Kanto, you will even hear the one-step more informal version 鳴ってんぞ～. I think it's a pretty universal linguistic tendency to want to say things quicker by having to utter fewer syllables.

鳴っているぞ～ = 5 syllables
鳴ってるぞ～ = 4 syllables
鳴ってんぞ～ = 3 syllables

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sashimister

I imagine that it would be. I've never studied Japanese as a foreign language so you guys would know better.

I don't think a native speaker would say 鳴っているぞ～　in any natural situation in the first place. I wouldn't. This is because the "dictionary" form いる　and the "informal" sentence ender ぞ create an awkward imbalance between them.

鳴ってるぞ～ sounds much more natural and in Kanto, you will even hear the one-step more informal version 鳴ってんぞ～. I think it's a pretty universal linguistic tendency to want to say things quicker by having to utter fewer syllables.

鳴っているぞ～ = 5 syllables
鳴ってるぞ～ = 4 syllables
鳴ってんぞ～ = 3 syllables

I understand that is how it is being said, but my question would be, is that a proper way to write it?

Can't and don't are still correct English (even if not formal English) but I don't remember seeing this form in any textbook I have looked at.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by MMM

I understand that is how it is being said, but my question would be, is that a proper way to write it?

Can't and don't are still correct English (even if not formal English) but I don't remember seeing this form in any textbook I have looked at.

In writing, no. That is unless you're talking about casual notes or letters between friends. Use 鳴ってる、住んでる、読んでる, etc. outside of a direct quote in a compo for school, and you will be corrected. Needless to say, you won't see it in the printed media, either.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sashimister

In writing, no. That is unless you're talking about casual notes or letters between friends. Use 鳴ってる、住んでる、読んでる, etc. outside of a direct quote in a compo for school, and you will be corrected. Needless to say, you won't see it in the printed media, either.

Then I am thinking writing it correctly might be a better idea for what is being used as a video textbook.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by MMM

Then I am thinking writing it correctly might be a better idea for what is being used as a video textbook.

I think if you're going to write ほ〜ら instead of ほら, then you should い-delete.

I guess it depends on the goal. If the video is to help improve listening, I say い-delete. If it's being used to teach grammar, I say do not い-delete.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

I think if you're going to write ほ〜ら instead of ほら, then you should い-delete.

I guess it depends on the goal. If the video is to help improve listening, I say い-delete. If it's being used to teach grammar, I say do not い-delete.

Point well taken.

I would just hope the individuals taking these lessons know that the words are not being written properly.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by MMM

Point well taken.

I would just hope the individuals taking these lessons know that the words are not being written properly.

That is something we can all agree on.

[StonerPenguin]

Hmm, interesting.. yeah the whole い being left out never bothered me except at when I first saw it with a verb whose dictionary form ended in つ because then it was hard to tell if it's the potential form or not. e.g. 待ってる ("I'm waiting") and 待てる ("I can wait") and at the time I couldn't remember if the potential form had a っ. Anywho, I've always thought of the contraction of the い sound similar to the colloquial loss of the final 'g' in english progressive forms, e.g 読んでいる-> 読んでる is similar to "I'm reading" -> I'm readin'

I could maybe put in a parenthesis the omited い like what I did when the girl says 起立, she omits the つ so in the romaji subs I wrote "Kiri(tsu)" so I could do it like this; "鳴って (い)る" or do the parenthesis just make it more confusing? Haha.

Sorry for how slow I've been, my computer has been crapping out on me D: