To all you who DL anime and manga for free

[thcuteness]

Now Im going to start buying more anime and manga.

[taimoorh]

I don't know if anyone has written this before (17 pages are a bit too much to go through) but has anyone considered this: that Anime and Manga have such a mainstream presence now (outside of Japan) because of rampant piracy?

Do companies honestly think that the huge audience they now cater to would have existed if they continued with their pathetic (often non-existant) advertisement? That cult series would've had such an impact (thus translating into direct DVD/ Manga sales) had word of mouth not preached the Western audiences?

This is a two edged sword. People will always argue about the morals of downloading animes illegally and the companies suffering, but these same companies have also gained a lot by buying out the rights to potentially hit series because the community was already buzzing about it when that anime aired in Japan.

Adapt to the changing market or die out, Netflix and iTunes are living proof of this. The movie & tv industry didn't vanish because people started recording on VCRs. Neither did the music industry when Napster hit.

Kudos to Crunchyroll and studio execs who're actually making significant strides by providing quality content with easy access.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mitsuki18

You have to be kidding me. That's the same as saying bums have no right to get food or shelter, because they can't pay for it.

Do "bums" have the "rights" to fine wines and New York steaks? Anime and manga are "luxury items" and stealing them makes you a thief.

Originally Posted by taimoorh

has anyone considered this: that Anime and Manga have such a mainstream presence now (outside of Japan) because of rampant piracy?

Making the pirates into Robin Hoods is a very romantic idea if the publishers were rich kings with more money than they knew what to do with. Sadly these "Robin Hoods" are putting the "kings" out of business.

Originally Posted by taimoorh

Do companies honestly think that the huge audience they now cater to would have existed if they continued with their pathetic (often non-existant) advertisement? That cult series would've had such an impact (thus translating into direct DVD/ Manga sales) had word of mouth not preached the Western audiences?

I think you are talking about fansubs and scanlations here. These are fine and great until the title is licensed. This isn't what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by taimoorh

This is a two edged sword. People will always argue about the morals of downloading animes illegally and the companies suffering, but these same companies have also gained a lot by buying out the rights to potentially hit series because the community was already buzzing about it when that anime aired in Japan.

Adapt to the changing market or die out, Netflix and iTunes are living proof of this. The movie & tv industry didn't vanish because people started recording on VCRs. Neither did the music industry when Napster hit.

Kudos to Crunchyroll and studio execs who're actually making significant strides by providing quality content with easy access.

I agree adaptation needs to happen, but that doesn't excuse illegal DLing. You can try all you like to make it right in your head, but it is literally killing an industry that is already on thin ice.

[taimoorh]

Originally Posted by MMM

Making the pirates into Robin Hoods is a very romantic idea if the publishers were rich kings with more money than they knew what to do with. Sadly these "Robin Hoods" are putting the "kings" out of business.

I think you are talking about fansubs and scanlations here. These are fine and great until the title is licensed. This isn't what I am talking about.

I agree adaptation needs to happen, but that doesn't excuse illegal DLing. You can try all you like to make it right in your head, but it is literally killing an industry that is already on thin ice.

How weak is the anime industry that piracy is actually killing it? Has there ever been a medium of entertainment that went extinct just because of piracy? All of your points basically add upto, "piracy is very bad people, stop pirating or studios won't have money to feed staff". A valid point, but you don't look deeper into this matter, the intricacies behind why things happen the way they do, nor propose a valid way out of it. Atypical to rich people looking down on thieves.

Shit happens, other industries have found out a way, why is the anime industry acting like it needs to be taken care of by others? Perhaps their dependence on otaku spending is so high that making creative business ventures is outside of their (and their fans') scope. There's a reason why things like Haruhi's Endless 8 arc exist.

Also, don't assume that I'm trying to make d/l'ing anime right in my head. I'm presenting points the opposite camp of which simply says to "buy DVDs and be happy getting ripped off". NO manner of arguments can justify the high prices being charged on DVDs, nor piracy which, as you and many studios claim, is "killing the industry". If there does indeed come a time such that the anime industry implodes, a handful of creative entrepreneurs will find a way out of that mess. Rest assured, until that day comes, and even if it does, anime and manga is not going the way of the dodo.

In conclusion: pirates keep doing what you do, buyers keep doing what you do. Both groups are fans of this industry, and both provide sustenance to it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by taimoorh

How weak is the anime industry that piracy is actually killing it? Has there ever been a medium of entertainment that went extinct just because of piracy? All of your points basically add upto, "piracy is very bad people, stop pirating or studios won't have money to feed staff". A valid point, but you don't look deeper into this matter, the intricacies behind why things happen the way they do, nor propose a valid way out of it. Atypical to rich people looking down on thieves.

Shit happens, other industries have found out a way, why is the anime industry acting like it needs to be taken care of by others? Perhaps their dependence on otaku spending is so high that making creative business ventures is outside of their (and their fans') scope. There's a reason why things like Haruhi's Endless 8 arc exist.

Also, don't assume that I'm trying to make d/l'ing anime right in my head. I'm presenting points the opposite camp of which simply says to "buy DVDs and be happy getting ripped off". NO manner of arguments can justify the high prices being charged on DVDs, nor piracy which, as you and many studios claim, is "killing the industry". If there does indeed come a time such that the anime industry implodes, a handful of creative entrepreneurs will find a way out of that mess. Rest assured, until that day comes, and even if it does, anime and manga is not going the way of the dodo.

In conclusion: pirates keep doing what you do, buyers keep doing what you do. Both groups are fans of this industry, and both provide sustenance to it.

I will never agree that pirates are fans. Never. If you are a fan, then you want the creators of what you enjoy to still be able to do it and put food on the table.

At this point in time anime comes in a format that is easy to steal and copy. The music biz has the same problem. But blaming the victim is just an attempt to justify your thieving. That's like blaming a rape victim because she wore a mini-skirt.

The truth is you have the power in your hands to do right. Every time you click "download" you are taking the food out of an already starving artists mouth. Justify it in your head all you want, but it still will never be right.

[Megabyte117]

Originally Posted by MMM

I will never agree that pirates are fans. Never. If you are a fan, then you want the creators of what you enjoy to still be able to do it and put food on the table.

I second this. I personally like to preview any manga/anime I might be interested in before buying, if only to ensure I get my money's worth. Recently I download Death Note, watched several episodes and decided to go out and buy the entire series because I appreciated the work put into producing such a well done anime. Honestly, to purchase anything, is to show your appreciation for what those people do.

Also, don't assume that I'm trying to make d/l'ing anime right in my head. I'm presenting points the opposite camp of which simply says to "buy DVDs and be happy getting ripped off". NO manner of arguments can justify the high prices being charged on DVDs, nor piracy which, as you and many studios claim, is "killing the industry". If there does indeed come a time such that the anime industry implodes, a handful of creative entrepreneurs will find a way out of that mess. Rest assured, until that day comes, and even if it does, anime and manga is not going the way of the dodo.

Most fans are hasty and purchase the DVDs right when they come out, and obviously, they will be a bit pricey, as will any other medium upon immediate release. I've bought dvds for $15, and even then $20 is not incredibly expensive considering their equivalents in Japan.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by taimoorh

Do companies honestly think that the huge audience they now cater to would have existed if they continued with their pathetic (often non-existant) advertisement? That cult series would've had such an impact (thus translating into direct DVD/ Manga sales) had word of mouth not preached the Western audiences?

For the most part, this has always been the case with me. It's not like it's advertised much. Some anime series, I might have watched fansubbed years ago, and it might just be getting a license now...but of course I wouldn't know since I lack the cable to watch these anime shows and I don't really read anime magazines or frequent many anime boards, so I never know what's licensed and what's not since for the most part, I delete junk after I watch it.

I watched Deathnote before that was licensed. Really enjoyed it, and pretty much promised myself to buy it whenever it did get one.

Same for manga. If it has no license, how can one buy it?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

For the most part, this has always been the case with me. It's not like it's advertised much. Some anime series, I might have watched fansubbed years ago, and it might just be getting a license now...but of course I wouldn't know since I lack the cable to watch these anime shows and I don't really read anime magazines or frequent many anime boards, so I never know what's licensed and what's not since for the most part, I delete junk after I watch it.

I watched Deathnote before that was licensed. Really enjoyed it, and pretty much promised myself to buy it whenever it did get one.

Same for manga. If it has no license, how can one buy it?

Obviously you have the Internet, so ignorance is no excuse.

So did you buy Death Note?

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

Obviously you have the Internet, so ignorance is no excuse.

Let me reword that. Unless I seek it out, I more than likely forget about it altogether, especially if it was years ago when I saw said series. I'm not that big of an anime fan, so it's no surprise I don't know when something gets a license, unless someone tells me or pionts it out. I watched Abenobashi Mahou Shoutengai years ago. I had no idea it had a license until I received it as a present and up until that point, I'd actually forgotten about the series. Very typical with me.

So did you buy Death Note?

Nope, not yet. I will at some point, though. Maybe if I wasn't out of work still, and every ounce of extra money I get didn't go towards student loans and classes and veterinarian bills and medication (as I have no insurance), I would have by now. Besides, I'd spend the money on the manga before the anime since it's cheaper...but I already managed to get that, then again, that's one series I never read a scanlation for since it already had a license when it was suggested to me.

Edit: Just recalled something else. Just because I haven't bought something yet, doesn't mean I don't plan on it. It's just that manga and cds (Japanese imports) are at a higher priority on the "to buy" list, as opposed to anime. I don't know how many times I've said that.

[JasonTakeshi]

Does the "advertise" (A major worldwide knownledge of Anime) done from piracy, who captivated millions of fans, was worth it? By worth it i mean, if the advertise from piracy (on worldwide) lured enough fans to actualy watch AND then buy the product, rather than NOT advertising it by piracy and letting it take its rume?

Advertise by piracy (Worldwide) leads to more fans, who leads to people downloading. But does it lead to an increase in sales by the simple fact of being a mass advertisement made by piracy who brought loads of fans? Or was it better if it was NOT advertised (less worldwide knownledge) with no possibility of downloading leaving it to -purchase- only option?

Few good things i can think comming from Piracy advertise (if they are any good) is the international TV stations airing the "Animes" (they will purchase the rights) who will actualy give some money to the companies. (I assume?)

The major side effect is perhaps less sales, spoiling the product, stealing the product, lack of interest, and so on.

I guess the worldwide advertise from piracy, who brings legions of worldwide fans, plus, brings TV Stations to purchase the -Rights- for the Anime on "x" contries, does not neutralize the outcome/income fragil "line" from stolen Products and spoiling works, and such.