To all you who DL anime and manga for free

[MMM]

Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi

Does the "advertise" (A major worldwide knownledge of Anime) done from piracy, who captivated millions of fans, was worth it? By worth it i mean, if the advertise from piracy (on worldwide) lured enough fans to actualy watch AND then buy the product, rather than NOT advertising it by piracy and letting it take its rume?

Advertise by piracy (Worldwide) leads to more fans, who leads to people downloading. But does it lead to an increase in sales by the simple fact of being a mass advertisement made by piracy who brought loads of fans? Or was it better if it was NOT advertised (less worldwide knownledge) with no possibility of downloading leaving it to -purchase- only option?

Few good things i can think comming from Piracy advertise (if they are any good) is the international TV stations airing the "Animes" (they will purchase the rights) who will actualy give some money to the companies. (I assume?)

The major side effect is perhaps less sales, spoiling the product, stealing the product, lack of interest, and so on.

I guess the worldwide advertise from piracy, who brings legions of worldwide fans, plus, brings TV Stations to purchase the -Rights- for the Anime on "x" contries, does not neutralize the outcome/income fragil "line" from stolen Products and spoiling works, and such.

This has to be the most backwards argument I have heard. That's like saying the guys that cam record new releases and sell them on DVD on the streets are giving the movies "free advertising".

C'mon. I am not going to waste any more time with that "argument".

[SSJup81]

But that's how most people get exposure to those series. They see it downloaded, otherwise, they probably wouldn't even know of their existence, 'cept for the mainstream stuff aimed at teenage boys (imo) that's shown on TV, like the Naruto and Bleach and whatever else they show on junk like Cartoon Network now.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

But that's how most people get exposure to those series. They see it downloaded, otherwise, they probably wouldn't even know of their existence, 'cept for the mainstream stuff aimed at teenage boys (imo) that's shown on TV, like the Naruto and Bleach and whatever else they show on junk like Cartoon Network now.

It's 2009. I read news sites that give me daily updates of what is new in Japan, America and all over. None of the places I frequent put up illegal uploads, and if I want a taste of what it is about there are surely previews and trailers on You Tube and the official sites.

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

But that's how most people get exposure to those series. They see it downloaded, otherwise, they probably wouldn't even know of their existence, 'cept for the mainstream stuff aimed at teenage boys (imo) that's shown on TV, like the Naruto and Bleach and whatever else they show on junk like Cartoon Network now.

This is an argument for the industry expanding and modernising, not for consumers to act illegally via some vague special pleading. People want to have these products. They see them for free. If they know it's illegal they make special cases up as they go to justify themselves.

If you really have no access to a manga you deadly love yet can't afford to get from far-away, morally you can only justify helping the industry reach you.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Skuu

This is an argument for the industry expanding and modernising, not for consumers to act illegally via some vague special pleading. People want to have these products. They see them for free. If they know it's illegal they make special cases up as they go to justify themselves.

Either way, how do you expect people to get exposure if it's not being exposed is what I'm saying. I wonder how many people saw it as illegal in the first place. I know I never thought much of it. My friend would get something to watch, and I'd watch it with him. Didn't know until a couple of years ago when my "anime watching" had died down a lot anyway due to boredom. I was always told it was "illegal" if it's a licensed work. But meh...no excuse, I guess.

If you really have no access to a manga you deadly love yet can't afford to get from far-away, morally you can only justify helping the industry reach you.

And how does one go about that? I can think of a couple of titles I'd like to have, but one is old (80s), and doesn't even have scanlations (not that I care..I'd take this series original and just ask someone to translate lol) and its anime NEEDS TO HAVE A DAMN RE-RELEASE (darn you Bandai!!), and the other one still doesn't have a license.

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

And how does one go about that? I can think of a couple of titles I'd like to have, but one is old (80s), and doesn't even have scanlations (not that I care..I'd take this series original and just ask someone to translate lol) and its anime NEEDS TO HAVE A DAMN RE-RELEASE (darn you Bandai!!), and the other one still doesn't have a license.

1. Just because you can't think of a way to legally satisfy yourself, doesn't make it right to do it illegally, so this point is irrelevant to the discussion.

2. I know nothing really about business or markets beyond supply and demand. If there's a market that a company knows about and it's big enough to justify the price of shipping (and maybe getting rights) there, then it will inevitably start appearing there. So for this reason I imagine just by buying any manga in your area you can encourage it. Obviously it'd be better to buy manga from the publisher you want.

What I take away from this discussion is, although it's been very positive that many people have said they will now curtail their downloading, people clearly do what they want and justify it after the fact. We all do this of course, but when it is actually causing people to suffer somewhere, we should question how 'necessary' our hobby is, and whether it may be more important to care about even the risk of someone else's livelihood, even if they're not right in front of us.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

It's 2009. I read news sites that give me daily updates of what is new in Japan, America and all over. None of the places I frequent put up illegal uploads, and if I want a taste of what it is about there are surely previews and trailers on You Tube and the official sites.

Now if I was more into anime I probably would. I rarely frequent anime sites. I don't know how many times I've said I usually don't watch something unless someone else has it and shows it to me. Anywho, I usually go to sites for specific series, mainly because I'm probably reading its manga in some way or form and like to discuss it, and as you know, I buy manga, because it's higher up on my "to buy" list than anime, even if I do have titles on the list that I'd like to purchase.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Skuu

1. Just because you can't think of a way to legally satisfy yourself, doesn't make it right to do it illegally, so this point is irrelevant to the discussion.

If it's not licensed, how else do you get to read it, even if you still plan on buying it when it becomes available? What about those who read scanlations and collects it? IMO, there's not much difference in this regard.

2. I know nothing really about business or markets beyond supply and demand. If there's a market that a company knows about and it's big enough to justify the price of shipping (and maybe getting rights) there, then it will inevitably start appearing there. So for this reason I imagine just by buying any manga in your area you can encourage it. Obviously it'd be better to buy manga from the publisher you want.

That's my problem for liking rare series or wanting to buy obscure series. It took a long time, but I finally managed to find the Gundam Wing manga last year. I got all of them, 'cept for one, but doesn't matter, just like most series I want, it's not found online scanlated. I'd be better off bidding on YahooJapan auction to find some the titles I want.

What I take away from this discussion is, although it's been very positive that many people have said they will now curtail their downloading, people clearly do what they want and justify it after the fact. We all do this of course, but when it is actually causing people to suffer somewhere, we should question how 'necessary' our hobby is, and whether it may be more important to care about even the risk of someone else's livelihood, even if they're not right in front of us.

Getting down to it, aside from reading ahead for series I'm physically collecting (manga) anyway, I rarely download much of anything now-a-days.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Now if I was more into anime I probably would. I rarely frequent anime sites. I don't know how many times I've said I usually don't watch something unless someone else has it and shows it to me. Anywho, I usually go to sites for specific series, mainly because I'm probably reading its manga in some way or form and like to discuss it, and as you know, I buy manga, because it's higher up on my "to buy" list than anime, even if I do have titles on the list that I'd like to purchase.

I am trying to figure out why you need to DL anime to discuss manga...but not very hard.

[Skuu]

I totally understand your problem, SS, and you're clearly thinking it through. But your argument comes down to: i want it, it's hard to get therefore...
and this would be a doable justification if we were talking about a different industry. However the whole point of this thread (I presume this was MMM's focus) was that the manga industry is sensitive to illegal downloads. Your greed doesn't beat their need (so to speak, no offense meant). It's your hobby, but their livelihood. That's what it comes down to.