To all you who DL anime and manga for free

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by alanX

Someone makes a price for a product. If someone comes in and says "I'm not going to pay for this, I'm going to make a copy of it and not pay anything instead." That is still stealing, as they have created this product and should be paid accordingly for it.

That is just infringing their copyrights.

Real stealing is much MORE bad for companies, it costs them the manufacturing and it's a chain reaction that makes companies loss due to piracy a mere joke.

So please, don't call it stealing.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

That is just infringing their copyrights.

Real stealing is much MORE bad for companies, it costs them the manufacturing and it's a chain reaction that makes companies loss due to piracy a mere joke.

So please, don't call it stealing.

Again, you couldn't be more wrong. It is "intellectual property". That means stealing includes not only the disc and the case and the packaging, but stealing includes the intellectual property. The data on the disc.

Stealing is stealing, whether or not it is a physical disc, book, DVD or it is data.

Your logic that it is "reproduced" making it not stealing is even more backwards because now you are distributing stolen data. That is worse than just stealing one physical disc, as you are costing the creator even MORE potential sales.

I am not going to keep going like this with you iPhantom. You are hung up on the word "stealing" and it is a word I will not stop using to make you feel more comfortable. It is stealing. There is no way around that. Either you come to accept that or continue to justify illegal activities in your head while the industry and ultimately the fans suffer in the end.

[NanteNa]

Originally Posted by MMM

I know you keep saying this, and I have explained each time how wrong you are.

I guess there's no hope, dude.
*sigh*

''It's a free country'' might be next. lol.

[Nathan]

Based upon his logic, I could photocopy his credit card. What, its not stealing, I'm just reproducing it. I wasn't going to get a CC from that bank anyways, so its no business lost for them!

Edit: The potential is the same. You continue to share the pirated data, it affects the sales from someone who might have otherwise purchased it. Even though I myself may not use your credit card number, I may end up giving it to someone that will.

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by MMM

This has to be the most backwards argument I have heard. That's like saying the guys that cam record new releases and sell them on DVD on the streets are giving the movies "free advertising".

C'mon. I am not going to waste any more time with that "argument".

Your getting it wrong, MMM. That was not what i wanted to pass on my reply.

"Does the "advertise" (A major worldwide knownledge of Anime) done from piracy, who captivated millions of fans, was worth it? By worth it i mean, if the advertise from piracy (on worldwide) lured enough fans to actualy watch AND then buy the product, rather than NOT advertising it by piracy and letting it take its rume?"

Want i want to point here is that if the downloading (Piracy worldwide Advertising) brought anything good that would infact "neutralize" the bad things it brought. Therefore, if it was better to follow the rume of not advertising it by piracy worldwide. Obviously im not suporting downloading (Piracy advertise), just exposing what would happen IF the downloading continues, of it actualy was removed from the face of the Earth.

Advertise by piracy (Worldwide) leads to more fans, who leads to people downloading. But does it lead to an increase in sales by the simple fact of being a mass advertisement made by piracy who brought loads of fans? Or was it better if it was NOT advertised (less worldwide knownledge) with no possibility of downloading leaving it to -purchase- only option?

What im pointing out here is the modernization/"spread-the-word" of the product VIA piracy advertisement. Again, im not taking sides with piracy advertisement. Infact, i think its morally and legally wrong. Because loosing "products" in order to attain knownledge of the product worldwide, it is not right nor healthy for the company. Thats why i questioned if "Piracy Advertise" would actualy bring "fans" worldwide who would buy the products, and in the other hand, if the products lost and the ones bought by those same worldwide fans, would be better if you would let it take its rume without any downloading stream source. Thats what im pointing out, not taking any sides.-

"Few good things i can think comming from Piracy advertise (if they are any good) is the international TV stations airing the "Animes" (they will purchase the rights) who will actualy give some money to the companies. (I assume?)"

The major side effect is perhaps less sales, spoiling the product, stealing the product, lack of interest, and so on.

By this, i mean that in alot of countries, -thanks- (this is relative) to the "illegal advertise" or "piracy advertise", many bought the Rights to air those series in their country TV stations. BUT, it does not "neutralize" the stolen/spoiled/burned products who were ripped from downloading and such. Again, a negative and not sustainable act from Piracy Downloading.

I guess the worldwide advertise from piracy, who brings legions of worldwide fans, plus, brings TV Stations to purchase the -Rights- for the Anime on "x" contries, does not neutralize the outcome/income fragil "line" from stolen Products and spoiling works, and such.

«In the end, my argument was not to justify positively “Piracy Advertise” but more like comparing the benefits and problems that it would bring, and the counters it takes aswell. So alll in all, im saying the good things Piracy Advertise brings, are not sufficient or enough to neutralize the bad things it brings aswell.

I hope i was more accurate this time, and sorry for giving you a wrong idea of my argument. I support your cause.

Edit: Had to color the text to make it less confusing.

[MMM]

Thank you for clarifying you statements. In the end I see you saying that the "good" piracy brings does not justify the "bad".

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by MMM

Thank you for clarifying your statements. In the end I see you saying that the "good" piracy brings does not justify the "bad".

Exactly. And i just brought a wall of text to clarify that, but it can be resumed to those words, yeah. :P

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by MMM

Again, you couldn't be more wrong. It is "intellectual property". That means stealing includes not only the disc and the case and the packaging, but stealing includes the intellectual property. The data on the disc.

Please don't base it on the DMCA redefinition of stealing. I think it's you who have it all wrong. You are making all these "legal" organizations RIGHT BY DEFAULT and not judging them.

Stealing is stealing, whether or not it is a physical disc, book, DVD or it is data.

Stealing is stealing, what I've been saying till now, not something you can use for something it isn't.

Your logic that it is "reproduced" making it not stealing is even more backwards because now you are distributing stolen data. That is worse than just stealing one physical disc, as you are costing the creator even MORE potential sales.

On the contrary, piracy has helped the popularity of products. If there were no piracy, it would have cost them quite more. you fail at realizing it.

I am not going to keep going like this with you iPhantom. You are hung up on the word "stealing" and it is a word I will not stop using to make you feel more comfortable. It is stealing. There is no way around that. Either you come to accept that or continue to justify illegal activities in your head while the industry and ultimately the fans suffer in the end.

As always you get out of the discussion claiming as you're right. You're freaking wrong. I have discussed more than just the word stealing, I brought up valid points like the pathetic copyright of Nintendo, RIAA and MPAA using illegal ways to kill piracy... you just can't see it. It's in your eyes.

Being a 'legality' defendant doesn't make you good, it makes you blind and unable to see the truth.

And your claims that piracy only damages are without no point. Do some research. A lot of products wouldn't be known at all.

[MMM]

Please tell how Nintendo is illegally protecting it's intellectual property from pirates.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by MMM

Please tell how Nintendo is illegally protecting it's intellectual property from pirates.

Nintendo is damaging his own customers to kill piracy by simply blocking their customers to backup something they bought.

Also, ROMs, Music, and all media torrents are tracked in a lot of sites (ThePirateBay for e.g.)... that is invasion of privacy, they also used ISPs to track what data do their customers use which is illegal.

Trust me, I've seen what this greedy companies do for years, they even fined someone for 250.000$ for just pirating 8 songs. They just want your money, they don't care about legality and sh**.