JapanForum.com  


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
(#221 (permalink))
Old
girigiri (Offline)
JF Regular
 
Posts: 60
Join Date: Jun 2009
07-12-2009, 01:25 AM

ゆりさん:
「現在完了時制 」について
The teaching that "has been ~" is a present perfect form first came to my attention a couple of years ago. 当惑しました。 On checking ESL and TEFL sites, I discovered that those sites teach "has been ~" as the present perfect form. 徹底的にびっくりした。
In response, I sent emails to some of the sites, asking for clarification of two issues. To repeat the phrasing of the key points of those emails:
1/ I have not been able to find reference to the "is + past participle" present perfect form - could you direct me to the area which explains it please.
2/ The "has been ~" form seems to have only its present perfect usage explained. Does your site explain its more common use as a progressive form?
To date: None of the sites that I e-mailed has given any response.
Reply With Quote
(#222 (permalink))
Old
YuriTokoro's Avatar
YuriTokoro (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 1,066
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kawasaki,Japan
07-12-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by girigiri View Post
Very little to comment on in that passage ゆりさん。

servers seem to have pride of their company. - I would use staff rather than servers; "in" rather than "of" (and maybe "work" rather than "company") "Servers" is understood, but not a natural choice.
Hi,girigiri.
If I write “work”, reader would not see the staff have pride in MAUZEN because MARUZEN is a prestigious, time-honored company.
Every waitress can have pride in their work, but it’s not what I wanted to say. What should I have written?

Quote:
M&C Café is run by MARUZEN book chain store. They say their first president named Hayashi is the first person who made Hayashi Rice.
M&C Cafe, run by MARUZEN book store chain, claim that their first president, Hayashi, was the first (person) to make Hayashi Rice. - Only "is←was" as a mandatory correction.
.
I thought “He was the first person” sounds like he is not the first person anymore, but I try to see how English goes. It’s too difficult!

Quote:
Getting nit-picky:
I ate Hayashi Rice at M&C Café today.
Hayashi Rice is similar to beef stew, and an ordinary dish in Japan.
At an M&C Cafe today, I had Hayashi Rice. It is an ordinary dish in Japan, similar to beef stew.
You put M&C café first. Does it mean the Café is more important than Hayashi Rice?
What does the order mean?

Quote:
It’s very nice place to have a break after shopping.
"a very nice place" (probably a matter of local dialect) have←take;
You mean “have” is correct? I wrote “have a break”.

Quote:
「現在完了時制 」について
The teaching that "has been ~" is a present perfect form first came to my attention a couple of years ago. 当惑しました。 On checking ESL and TEFL sites, I discovered that those sites teach "has been ~" as the present perfect form. 徹底的にびっくりした。
“has been” is a present perfect form, but they say it’s the present perfect form. OK. (Am I following you?)

Quote:
In response, I sent emails to some of the sites, asking for clarification of two issues. To repeat the phrasing of the key points of those emails:
1/ I have not been able to find reference to the "is + past participle" present perfect form - could you direct me to the area which explains it please.
You have not been able to find examples with the “is + past participle” present perfect form. And you asked them to tell you where the examples or explanations are.
I don’t know the difference between “the ‘is + participle present perfect form’” and “a”.
Is a “is + past participle present perfect form” “She has been locked away in a tower for 10 years”, for example?

Quote:
2/ The "has been ~" form seems to have only its present perfect usage explained. Does your site explain its more common use as a progressive form?
To date: None of the sites that I e-mailed has given any response.
A progressive form? Is it “She has been waiting for a knight to rescue her”, for example?
I’m sorry. I don’t see what you mean.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
Reply With Quote
(#223 (permalink))
Old
YuriTokoro's Avatar
YuriTokoro (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 1,066
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kawasaki,Japan
07-12-2009, 05:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koir View Post
Even though it's essentially different, I'm reminded of the "Echoes" restaurant from the "White Album" anime. Hayashi rice sounds delicious from your description, especially since I enjoy homemade beef stew every once in a while.
Hi,Koir.
What’s White Album?
When I make beef stew, I use beef stew mix blocks. Do you use such kind of ingredient?

Quote:
As for the post composition, there weren't many change needed. Mostly the changes were in articles concerning ownership of items ("their company", "their president", etc.),
I don’t see what you have changed.
You mean “They have good and quiet atmosphere” → “It has a good, quiet atmosphere”?

Quote:
so if a different meaning is wanted changes can always be made.
Koir, thanks a lot as always.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
Reply With Quote
(#224 (permalink))
Old
Nagoyankee's Avatar
Nagoyankee (Offline)
中庸を得るのだ~
 
Posts: 2,119
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tokyo, Japan
07-12-2009, 06:05 AM

シカトした方がいいかもね、このイニシャルジーの人。 他のスレでもスンゲー偉そうなことばっか言うんだけど 、よく読むと内容がハチャメチャ。相手にしてるとゆー ちゃんにとっていいこと無いよ。

Last edited by Nagoyankee : 07-12-2009 at 06:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
(#225 (permalink))
Old
Koir's Avatar
Koir (Offline)
Meow.
 
Posts: 971
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
07-12-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Hi,Koir.
What’s White Album?
It's an anime set in the world of Japanese "idol" singers. The male lead's girlfriend is following her dream of becoming an idol singer, and the series examines the problems and stresses of that process. There were only 13 episodes aired out of the total of 26, the second group of 13 is set to begin airing in September, in keeping with the winter theme of the anime.

Website: TV

The anime has a sort of restaurant which is the headquarters of the people helping the male lead's girlfriend follow her dreams. Even if the place is fictitious, it still is presented in a calming way as a location with good atmosphere. It's what I thought of first when you described the restaurant in your post.

Quote:
When I make beef stew, I use beef stew mix blocks. Do you use such kind of ingredient?
In the past, we used that ingredient very rarely. Nowadays, we actually use a package of beef noodle soup to which water is added. It's most often a separate side dish, but it's put in the stew to add flavour and colour.

Quote:
I don’t see what you have changed.
You mean “They have good and quiet atmosphere” → “It has a good, quiet atmosphere”?
Yes. In that context, the restaurant and all people in it (servers, customers, kitchen staff) are seen as one entity which has the common characteristic of creating a welcoming atmosphere.


Fortunately, there is one woman in this world who can control me.

Unfortunately for you, she is not here.

"Ride for ruin, and the world ended!"

Last edited by Koir : 07-12-2009 at 12:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
(#226 (permalink))
Old
girigiri (Offline)
JF Regular
 
Posts: 60
Join Date: Jun 2009
07-12-2009, 04:02 PM

”She has been waiting for a knight to rescue her” Certainly:- かなりおそらく、彼女はまっています。待つことはおわ ってないですから完了時制でありえない。

Wikipedia:
The present perfect tense is a perfect tense used to express action that has been completed with respect to the present.

Whoa: there's been a change since I last checked、"have + past participle" is now listed as past perfect, at least on some sites.

About.com
We use has or have with a past participle to describe an action that started in the past and is (or may be) still going on. This construction is called the past-perfect tense.

(past perfect is at least an improvement on present perfect -but perfect still means
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxford Dictionary
Brought to consummation or completeness; completed
)

For those who wish to compare, this page, post#28 is the first in a particular series of posts - there are maybe 3 or 4 made by me regarding the subject in the thread - that I made about the matter just before I checked the ESL sites. Note also the response at post#32.

Given that I stand to be accused of both arrogance and of hypocrisy in making this kind of comment about teaching materials, I do not make such posts lightly.

EDIT: (sigh) that past perfect bit seems to be a typo... I've asked for clarification.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A gentleman is someone who never insults another by mistake.

Last edited by girigiri : 07-12-2009 at 05:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
(#227 (permalink))
Old
YuriTokoro's Avatar
YuriTokoro (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 1,066
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kawasaki,Japan
07-15-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koir View Post
It's an anime set in the world of Japanese "idol" singers. The male lead's girlfriend is following her dream of becoming an idol singer, and the series examines the problems and stresses of that process. There were only 13 episodes aired out of the total of 26, the second group of 13 is set to begin airing in September, in keeping with the winter theme of the anime.
The web site is in Japanese. Do you read Japanese?
The anime was broadcast on a local television station in Japan. How did you watch them?

Quote:
In the past, we used that ingredient very rarely. Nowadays, we actually use a package of beef noodle soup to which water is added. It's most often a separate side dish, but it's put in the stew to add flavour and colour.
Beef noodle soup. Does it have noodle in it?

Quote:
Yes. In that context, the restaurant and all people in it (servers, customers, kitchen staff) are seen as one entity which has the common characteristic of creating a welcoming atmosphere.
I see. You don’t say “they” when you say a restaurant and all people in it.
Koir, thanks a lot!


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
Reply With Quote
(#228 (permalink))
Old
YuriTokoro's Avatar
YuriTokoro (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 1,066
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kawasaki,Japan
07-15-2009, 09:21 AM

Hi.
Could you correct my English?

"Sleeping on the Train"

Many Japanese people sleep sitting on the train. Some sleep standing. You might not believe this. One of my English teachers from The U.S. has said he hadn’t imagined it before he came to Japan but he saw the people every morning in Tokyo.
I’ve never seen people sleeping on the train outside Japan. I wonder what you think when you see people sleeping on the train. I’ve read some foreign man called it “Japanese siesta”.
When I get on the underground train in New York, I tried to sleep out of habit, and then I reminded I wasn’t in Japan, opened my eyes quickly.
Do you sleep on the train in your country?

Thank you.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
Reply With Quote
(#229 (permalink))
Old
trunker (Offline)
JF Old Timer
 
Posts: 200
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nagasaki
07-15-2009, 09:37 AM

Many Japanese people sleep sitting up on the train. Some even sleep standing up, which may be hard to believe.

One of my English teachers from the U.S. has said that he hadn’t imagined (can be "couldnt imagine") it before he came to Japan until he saw the people every morning in Tokyo.
I’ve never seen people asleep on the train outside of Japan.

I wonder what you think when you see people sleeping on the train. I’ve read that a foreigner called it the “Japanese siesta”.

When I got on the underground train in New York, I tried to sleep out of habit, and then I remembered that I wasn’t in Japan and opened my eyes quickly.

Do you sleep on the train in your country?


some minor changes, mostly in composition, but it was all pretty much correct, and was just a matter of making it flow a bit better,.... since i had time to kill

i've seen people sleep on the train in many countries, but none as comfortably or as deeply as they do here.

Last edited by trunker : 07-15-2009 at 09:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
(#230 (permalink))
Old
Koir's Avatar
Koir (Offline)
Meow.
 
Posts: 971
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
07-15-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
The web site is in Japanese. Do you read Japanese?
No, I just followed a wikipedia link and posted it here knowing you'd be able to read it easier.

Quote:
The anime was broadcast on a local television station in Japan. How did you watch them?
>.>
<.<

Online, as a fansubbed streaming video.

Quote:
Beef noodle soup. Does it have noodle in it?
Very short ones, but yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Hi.
Could you correct my English?

"Sleeping on the Train"

Many Japanese people sleep while sitting on the train; some sleep while standing up. This may be hard to believe. One of my English teachers from the U.S. said he couldn't imagine it before he came to Japan, but then he saw people doing it every morning in Tokyo.
I’ve never seen people sleeping on the train outside Japan. I wonder what you think when you see people sleeping on the train. I’ve read that some foreign men have named it the “Japanese siesta”.
When I get on the underground train in New York, I tried to sleep out of habit, but then I remembered I wasn’t in Japan and woke up quickly.
Do you sleep on the train in your country?

Thank you.
So far in my life, I haven't been on any trains and therefore don't have any experience with normal behaviours on them. I imagine sleeping on the train as a matter of habit during the daytime is a reflection of the comfort level the person has in the behaviour of society.

*chuckles*

But yes, I have slept on buses. During my first college experience I "zoned out" a lot, or essentially turned my mind off while keeping my eyes open. There was one especially amusing time when I did so and completely forgot to signal the driver. I remember coming out of one of those dazes to find the bus driver looking at me, and the bus was parked. It's a very good thing the driver knew where I usually had my stop or who knows how long I would have gone around the route!


Fortunately, there is one woman in this world who can control me.

Unfortunately for you, she is not here.

"Ride for ruin, and the world ended!"

Last edited by Koir : 07-15-2009 at 12:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright 2003-2006 Virtual Japan.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6