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HipHopAnonymous (Offline)
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05-24-2010, 06:18 PM

This is a very interesting thread. I spent a decent amount of time reading conversations about the rules of the English language, and how to use particular words properly. I decided I would throw in my 2 cents, which may help some of those trying to get better at using the English language in a conversational manner.
The RULES you learn about English in text books are very important and teach you how to structure sentences properly. What may be very little known about the English language, is that it's so versatile and bendable; allowing you to structure sentences in almost any order you please. This is done by the EMPHASIS on particular words and TONE OF VOICE when you are speaking. Much can be achieved in speaking English by properly emphasizing particular words to relay your message, and attitude towards someone.
Here are some examples; (words in bold are the words being emphasized using my tone of voice.)

A: "DID you go to the store?"
-With the word "did" emphasized, you imply an accusatory or suspicious feeling with a particular meaning. Restructured in the English speaker's mind it would read.- "Did you go to the store, or are you lying to me?"

B: "Did YOU go to the store?"
-With the word"you" emphasized, you imply that you were unaware that the person you are speaking to, was the person you expected to go to the store. Meaning there is a third person involved in this situation. In the English speaker's mind this may be translated as. -"I didn't expect you to be the one to go to the store."

C: "Did you go to the STORE?"
-With the word "store" emphasized, you imply that you are in some way surprised that the listener went to the store. Maybe you told him/her not to, and he/she did anyway. Perhaps you are upset that this person went to the store without you because he/she knew it was your favorite store. In the English speaker's mind, this sentence may translate as. -"How could you go to the store without me? you know it's my favorite store." or even "You went to the store and you know you were not supposed to go there."

Anyways, there are endless examples of this type of thing in English and I feel is very key to understanding how to speak it. When it comes to writing, or typing in English. Emphasis on your words and sentences are created by punctiation, such as commas, Periods, Exclaimation points, question marks. Based on your punctuation, the English speaker will read your sentence in their head, assuming emphasis on certain words. This can have a great affect on how your message is precieved by the reader.
All in all, it is not uncommon for an English speaker to mis-interperet what someone is saying, when they are writing informally. This is based on two things. Informal writing contains little to no punctuation and is therefore harder for the reader to understand what is being said, because the EMPHASIS on words and sentences is not apparent.
Sorry if this is confusing for some members that posess English as a second language. I'm glad to clear things up for you. Sorry if this is off-topic as well but I felt it appropriate. :-) good day!
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YuriTokoro (Offline)
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05-26-2010, 06:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caerula View Post
In contrast I have difficulties, to clip the vowels (like u and i) and to find the right accent-bearing letter on speaking Japanese. It also makes it difficult to understand spoken words and sentences. One mistake and the word gets an different meaning.
I see.
Japanese language doesn’t have its standard, but only common version.
It means that many people speak local directs without getting embarrassed. When you listen to Japanese on Japanese TV, you would be able to hear many versions of Japanese. Most of them speak strangely. I think they are from the country.
I understand that to catch their Japanese is difficult to you.

Quote:
Oh yes, the Kanjis are more than a bit difficult. They´re one entirely different subject. I only know a very small number of Kanjis and I have to confess, that I really haven´t any clue of how to learn those complex and multitudinous characters ever.
For now, I´m endeavouring to first understand and second speak Japanese.
Yes, sorry! Learning kanji is more than a bit difficult.
However, learning English and German words is more than kanji to me.
You can use less than 30 letters only, and using then, you write meaningless combinations. (English and German words seem to be like that to me.)
Since kanji have its each means, so reading kanji is easier than alphabets to me.

Quote:
Is it right, that children in Japan at first learn reading in Hiragana- and Katakana-Charakters? I heard, that there are even children´s books written in these two writings.
At the beginning, they learn hiragana, and then katakana.
Their first books are like these;
よろしく (^O^) LETS LEARN JAPANESE: Japanese Childrenbooks - Practice reading Hiragana !


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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YuriTokoro (Offline)
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05-26-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopAnonymous View Post
This is a very interesting thread.
Hi, HipHopAnonymous.
Welcome to JF!

Quote:
C: "Did you go to the STORE?"
-With the word "store" emphasized, you imply that you are in some way surprised that the listener went to the store. Maybe you told him/her not to, and he/she did anyway. Perhaps you are upset that this person went to the store without you because he/she knew it was your favorite store. In the English speaker's mind, this sentence may translate as. -"How could you go to the store without me? you know it's my favorite store." or even "You went to the store and you know you were not supposed to go there."
I thought that it was “Did you go to the store?”
If you emphasized the store, what would you imply?

If you don’t want to imply anything, how would you say?

Thank you.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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HipHopAnonymous (Offline)
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05-26-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Hi, HipHopAnonymous.
Welcome to JF!

Thank you so much!
I thought that it was “Did you go to the store?”
If you emphasized the store, what would you imply?

If you don’t want to imply anything, how would you say?

Thank you.
In conversation, putting voice inflection on "the store" would sound unnatural. If I use my voice to inflect "store" I would imply that I was surprised you went to the store. If you don't want to imply anything, and you are merely curious to know if this person went to the store or not. You would not infelct your voice very much at all when asking the question. Just say it in a pleaseant tone with no inflection in your voice and you will get a pleasant, "yes" or "no" response. Hope this helps!
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Decen (Offline)
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05-27-2010, 01:28 AM

I don't think I would use infliction like that unless I am being a smart ass. English isn't like French or Japanese where a change of tone changes the meaning of what your saying. Besides that, I don't think its necessary to teach somebody who is new to western sarcasm how to sound sarcastic.

Yuri, all you have to worry about is phrasing it like a question and you will get the response that answers your question. If they were going to the store and went to the arcade instead they might say "oh yeah, the arcade sounded like more fun and i picked up some milk from the convenience store." or if they sent somebody else, "yeah, George went. I'll stay here." or if they didn't go, "No i didn't." There is no rule in English that says If I emphasize one word I'm looking for a specific response. Just speak naturally and you will be understood.
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YuriTokoro (Offline)
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05-29-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopAnonymous View Post
In conversation, putting voice inflection on "the store" would sound unnatural.
Hi, HipHopAnonymous.
Implying something seems to be too difficult to me.
Thank you!


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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YuriTokoro (Offline)
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05-29-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decen View Post
Yuri, all you have to worry about is phrasing it like a question and you will get the response that answers your question. If they were going to the store and went to the arcade instead they might say "oh yeah, the arcade sounded like more fun and i picked up some milk from the convenience store." or if they sent somebody else, "yeah, George went. I'll stay here." or if they didn't go, "No i didn't." There is no rule in English that says If I emphasize one word I'm looking for a specific response. Just speak naturally and you will be understood.
Hi, Decen.
You are right. I seem to need study basics first. My English is not that good to imply complicated things.
Thanks.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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YuriTokoro (Offline)
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05-30-2010, 01:24 PM

Could you tell me something?

This is from a novel. (The title is The Great Gatsby.)

Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.

What’s the difference of the meanings between them? Isn’t the second one correct?
1. Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone,
2. Whenever you feel like criticizing someone,

Thank you!


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP

Last edited by YuriTokoro : 05-30-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Koir (Offline)
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05-30-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Could you tell me something?

This is from a novel. (The title is The Great Gatsby.)

Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.

What’s the difference of the meanings between them? Isn’t the second one correct?
1. Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone,
2. Whenever you feel like criticizing someone,

Thank you!
The first sentence has a formal tone. "Anyone" is a nonspecific word and makes the statement more of a general observation. The second sentence seems more informal, as though the speaker and audience have a specific individual or group of individuals in mind for context.

In the context of the book, the first sentence is more correct as books can be more formal that normal conversation.

Hope that is of some use, Yuri


Fortunately, there is one woman in this world who can control me.

Unfortunately for you, she is not here.

"Ride for ruin, and the world ended!"
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V1nn1 (Offline)
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05-30-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
At the beginning, they learn hiragana, and then katakana.
Their first books are like these;
よろしく (^O^) LETS LEARN JAPANESE: Japanese Childrenbooks - Practice reading Hiragana !
Haha could be useful for me
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