Alcohol

[EveV]

Originally Posted by chaseme

Can you explain how those change in values happen?
never been drunk myself, but from what i can see from my friends when they got drunk are just puking, unable to move properly. unable to talk properly thats all.
we do crazy stuff when were drinking, but we also do it when we are not drunk.
sometimes there are people that would pick a fight with us when we are drinking. But even if when we are not drinking that also happen.

either way im sure that those men do beat their wives even if not drunk.
and when caught all they can do is blame it on alcohol, probably because they thought that there are people like you guys that believe that alcohol do change ones values.

You're very naive about alcohol:/

Alcohol affects people differently as I said before.
I get depressed when I'm drunk.
Most people I know get happy and more social.


I've lived with an alcoholic the person he was when he was drunk was completely different then the person he was when he was sober.
Anyone who lives with an alcoholic well tell you that.
There's a huge difference between drinking buddies having fun and an alcoholic.

Alcohol makes you lose control. You lose care.
So you do shit that's stupid or say shit that's stupid.
I don't really care what your buddies do.
You and your buddies aren't the only people in the world.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by chaseme

yeah but if it really does what you claim the govt should at least warn the people and strive for social awareness. or else there will be teenagers like me that dont know that fact(there is only a few human behavior issues/research that i recognize as a fact*actually i think there is none*, mainly because humans are unpredictable)

lol my point is not whether they are more or less capable of doing it.
if a man values says its ok to beat your spouse whether hes drunk or not he is capable of doing it. thus there is no change in values.
*hope you get my point

He is definitely a closet pervert lol. Im 100% sure i wont do anything on those line. Even if i drink non-stop ill probably die drinking before that happens.

ok do you guys think that youll do something out of line when you got drunk?
for me what i think is right or ok to do will be same as before i drink alcohol.

A big LOL
please tell me you have the decency to read what i have written before you contradict my comment ^^,

taken from wiki
this probably what you mean


This is the definition of values i used as i already said in my earlier post


what we are talking about change in values is like this.
person A with values A person A drinks 10 bottles of alcohol
does his values change from A to B in the time that alcohol is in effect

now welcome to the discussion

Sorry but not only do I think your definiton of "values" absolutely wrong but also fail to see why you've tried to include this at all in this discussion.
What you are calling "values" are actually learned or acquired traits in people.
"Behaviour" is what changes and how we come to terms with our "values" such as whether we swear in public, in front of children, walk in the park naked and so on. Values are learnt via our upbringing, our peers and mostly nowadays, the media. So when you say that people are capable of such and such thing before they drink alcohol, then yes I agree. Actually on the same basis, so is everyone else, depending on their upbringing and values learnt. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will learn from their surroundings and hence are capable of any number of negative things. It is their "Behaviour" that tells them whether they should and shouldn't do such things. So yes, SOME people according to their behaviour won't need a drink to act violently. They will do it anyway.
According to government statistics however, which are contrary to your personal experience, when people are drunk they are more likely to commit crimes that are a vast part of those statistics.
This is because their Behavioural Inhibitions have been effected and so negative "values" rise to the surface easily, especially since they have been kept in check for so long.
Therefore not only is repeatedly quoting and arguing about "values" plainly irrelevant but it is absolutely wrong. It had no business being in a discussion about how alcohol effects human behaviour in the first place, apart from the fact that when drinking alcohol a person is more likely to portray their "negative values".

To summarise, "values" are learnt from surroundings. Behaviour keeps those values whether negative or positive, in check. Alcohol effects the centre of the brain which controls behaviour, hence the "values" whether they be negative or positive are left unchecked and left to run free. There is less and less will power to control negative "values" once a person has more and more to drink.
Hope that makes it clearer for you.

[chaseme]

lol had you drank with the ppl i go out with and started sipping water youd have been thrown down a flight of stairs ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaseme View Post
We go to around 4-5 bars we go out at night and we dont see people like you.
we dont see ppl like you? what kind of ppl is that ?

Lol, what a fool, i already said i go out with people and thats what i do and its effective. and i also mention that it is recommended by experts

heres a link. this isnt the first site i read but this will have to do.

Safe Drinking Tips

please dont talk to me about your alcohol experience. you need professional help with your drinking problems. You have special issues that might be dangerous when you continue drinking irresponsibly.

People that go around naked butt his head on walls that kind of person.

Sorry but not only do I think your definiton of "values" absolutely wrong but also fail to see why you've tried to include this at all in this discussion.
What you are calling "values" are actually learned or acquired traits in people.
"Behaviour" is what changes and how we come to terms with our "values" such as whether we swear in public, in front of children, walk in the park naked and so on. Values are learnt via our upbringing, our peers and mostly nowadays, the media. So when you say that people are capable of such and such thing before they drink alcohol, then yes I agree. Actually on the same basis, so is everyone else, depending on their upbringing and values learnt. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will learn from their surroundings and hence are capable of any number of negative things. It is their "Behaviour" that tells them whether they should and shouldn't do such things. So yes, SOME people according to their behaviour won't need a drink to act violently. They will do it anyway.
According to government statistics however, which are contrary to your personal experience, when people are drunk they are more likely to commit crimes that are a vast part of those statistics.
This is because their Behavioural Inhibitions have been effected and so negative "values" rise to the surface easily, especially since they have been kept in check for so long.
Therefore not only is repeatedly quoting and arguing about "values" plainly irrelevant but it is absolutely wrong. It had no business being in a discussion about how alcohol effects human behaviour in the first place, apart from the fact that when drinking alcohol a person is more likely to portray their "negative values".

To summarise, "values" are learnt from surroundings. Behaviour keeps those values whether negative or positive, in check. Alcohol effects the centre of the brain which controls behaviour, hence the "values" whether they be negative or positive are left unchecked and left to run free. There is less and less will power to control negative "values" once a person has more and more to drink.
Hope that makes it clearer for you.

Provided that my definition of values is not right from your vocabulary.
i did say what i mean when i say values. i often do include my definition when i mention something in a discussion.
that is because i consider our cultural differences and i know more argument will arise, which is the case right now.
all you do is say that my belief that is wrong but you dont even know what i mean. all people says im naive and immature. well i say all you adult are fools that dont try to understand the young people idea before you contradicts


You guys are the one that come to me and argue about change in values,


take a read on what misamisa said probably youll understand what i mean

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by chaseme

Lol, what a fool, i already said i go out with people and thats what i do and its effective. and i also mention that it is recommended by experts

heres a link. this isnt the first site i read but this will have to do.


please dont talk to me about your alcohol experience. you need professional help with your drinking problems. You have special issues that might be dangerous when you continue drinking irresponsibly.

People that go around naked butt his head on walls that kind of person.






Provided that my definition of values is not right from your vocabulary.
i did say what i mean when i say values. i often do include my definition when i mention something in a discussion.
that is because i consider our cultural differences and i know more argument will arise, which is the case right now.
all you do is say that my belief that is wrong but you dont even know what i mean. all people says im naive and immature. well i say all you adult are fools that dont try to understand the young people idea before you contradicts


You guys are the one that come to me and argue about change in values,


take a read on what misamisa said probably youll understand what i mean

I never discounted your opinion because you were young. Instead of making people trying to understand your points, why don't you understand theirs too? You are not acknowledging anyone elses argument but your own.
I've understood everything you've said and that is why I am disagreeing with you.
There are some people who do fit the description of what you've said. They have negative values instilled in them and they do not need alcohol to bring them out.
However, the majority of people are not like that without alcohol consumption.
So once again i'll say, yes you are right to a certain extent but the majority of alcohol related crimes are committed after people drink alcohol, not just because they are capable of doing so. Everyone is capable of negativity but the majority of people have those urges under control.

[chaseme]

i never said you did some other guy did
The people's opinion is that im wrong
how can i accept im that im wrong they dont even understand what im trying to say.

not just because they are capable of doing so.

**please dont take the absolute definition of capable. because it OBVIOUS that it is not what i meant.

that said. The people who do things that they "claim" that they are not capable of doing is a small minority. How many guys do you see running butt naked when you go out to drink? I personally havent seen someone doing things on that line.
and i have been going out for 2years now and at average 3-4 times a month and go to around 3-5 bars a night.
Those kind of people need professional help really. An actor in my country harassed a girl. That was his second offense of sexual harassment when drunk those people really need help.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by chaseme

i never said you did some other guy did
The people's opinion is that im wrong
how can i accept im that im wrong they dont even understand what im trying to say.


**please dont take the absolute definition of capable. because it OBVIOUS that it is not what i meant.

that said. The people who do things that they "claim" that they are not capable of doing is a small minority. How many guys do you see running butt naked when you go out to drink? I personally havent seen someone doing things on that line.
and i have been going out for 2years now and at average 3-4 times a month and go to around 3-5 bars a night.
Those kind of people need professional help really. An actor in my country harassed a girl. That was his second offense of sexual harassment when drunk those people really need help.

Actually I don't know what you mean when you say not to take the absolute definition of capable.
I actually face drunkards quite a bit since i'm in Birmingham City Centre a lot on Friday and Saturday nights. People running butt naked is just the beginning of what I see.
Asides from that, I interact with a lot of them too since I know a lot of students and friends who go out and drink alcohol.
Birmingham has one of the most active night lives in England and it definitely shows what alcohol can do when you see people, (women) urinating without a care, in the middle of the road because they are too drunk to find a toilet.
It is truly disgusting. Even animals have more manners.

[EveV]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Actually I don't know what you mean when you say not to take the absolute definition of capable.
I actually face drunkards quite a bit since i'm in Birmingham City Centre a lot on Friday and Saturday nights. People running butt naked is just the beginning of what I see.
Asides from that, I interact with a lot of them too since I know a lot of students and friends who go out and drink alcohol.
Birmingham has one of the most active night lives in England and it definitely shows what alcohol can do when you see people, (women) urinating without a care, in the middle of the road because they are too drunk to find a toilet.
It is truly disgusting. Even animals have more manners.

Really?
Geeze.
I thought it was supposed to be pretty nice over there even in the bad parts. o.O
I don't know about other parts of the U.S but if you do that here in Houston you'll find yourself in jail for awhile and all over the news.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by EveV

Really?
Geeze.
I thought it was supposed to be pretty nice over there even in the bad parts. o.O
I don't know about other parts of the U.S but if you do that here in Houston you'll find yourself in jail for awhile and all over the news.

Lol noway. The bad parts here are pretty bad. Its only because we are a smaller country than America that statistically we might not seem bad. Also the "tally ho" image doesn't help
However, there is a total rejection of a lot of moral standards in my society.

[clairebear]

o.O
I never see people doing that sorta stuff where I live. Lol.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by clairebear

o.O
I never see people doing that sorta stuff where I live. Lol.

How old are you Claire?