Why did you want to learn Martial Arts?

[Amnell]

Originally Posted by Lyric

If you fight to protect and to not kill, but defend.

Pretty close to how I see it... I simple word change should align it:

If you fight to protect and not to murder.

If I ever got into a serious fight--gun point robbery, home break in, anything of that nature--I would not hesitate to kill the guy if I thought it all necessary for my own well-being. But I would never use what I've learned to just go up to someone and simply kill them.

I'm not saying that I would quickly jump to lethal force. I'd rather disable the person--severely XD . Break an arm, kick the knee, scratch out an eye, stick a knife into their thigh and pull it down, etc. I DO jump to disabling force (and you can thank my kenpo instructor).

Entering a serious fight without the will to maim or kill your opponent is next to suicidal, unless you're absolutely certain that your opponent doesn't have that will. I learned this talking to a family friend from the USMC about my habit of carrying a knife with me everywhere. I didn't carry a knife again for several weeks until I was certain I'd be willing to use it against someone, lest, as he told me, "they take it away from ya and stick you with it."

Tournament fights should be approached from a very different mindset. This is where my issue with Tenchu and Hyakushi lies, mostly. I mean, there's serious and there's too serious.

[DragonShade]

I wanna learn Kendo so bad.. but there arent any Dojo that hosts kendo activity around here.....

[Housetek]

was tired of being a skinny lil wimp =P

[MazarDantechildofdevil]

Well I'm not martial artist... But if I could take the class I would... What would inspire me to join... Is because I think being able to woops somebody's butt with cool fighting moves is awesome... Or just to know it would be cool... Heh... Just so you guys know... ^.^; I'm Officially Back! Your favorite Hyperactive Forum Member! Is back!

[Hyakushi]

Originally Posted by Amnell

Hyakushi... If rules cramp your style, than you have a lot of work to do yet. I agree with you that sometimes a certain rule can be irritating, but it shouldn't be limiting to your ability.

You have to understand something I want a real fight between real people, I don't mind rules but if its totally neccesary to do so such as in tournaments then yes I will obay them. Like I said tournaments are kitty play, you wear padding, you go for points you just have fun. It doesn't really fit in with my job.

I never said I was incapable of fighting with rules but it just seems pointless to me only fighting for points.

Sure killing someone in battle is common one kick to my opponents kidney is all I need to put them down for good. So what kind of good battle would it be if it ends so quickly, I want something challenging.

[Hyakushi]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Cool, I hope you encourage him never to stop, even as he gets an old man. It is an excellent benefit to life.

No, what I am saying is like, say you get taken in by cops, or a security gaurd, and handcuffed. You now have your hands behind your back, and can only use kick and knee strikes to fight. If you wanne escape, you will be seriously restricted. I once thought the same way as you until I realized the only way for me to follow the Way of the Warrior is through tournament fighting right now. Now I have changed my perspective. I have pillows on my hands, well, what I am trying to do is learn to generate enough power so that I can still achieve a one hit knockout or even try for a skull crush. LOL. There are often many restrictions in reality. Say you are at the beach surfing, you get out of the water and walk to your car bare feat through the gravel with softened feet from the water. You see two punks trying to steal your car, the window is broken, one is hotwireing, the other keeping look out. You have to move careful coz your feet hurt on the gravel, but still have to fight. This is a restriction, same as you may find in a tournament. You still gotta beat the fuck outa these guys, but you gotta do it bare feet and they got boots on. A truw Warrior has to be able to accept any challenge from any one, and anywhere. (LOL, I am quoteing that huge wrestler from the PS game DOA, remember?). This goes both ways. If a K1 fighter who only fights in K1 learns to never worry about defense from elbows, coz they dont use em there, and then he faces them on the street and gets his skull cracked, it is his own stupid fault. Do you understand what I am saying? To be a true powerful Warrior you must develop the strength to beat EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT.

Oh, that makes more sense. Even if you were lieing, I didnt think you were stupid enough to make a lie like that at the same time.

Anyway, I think you should learn to fight in a ring, also...

Yes I agree there are limitations but thats why we train is it not?, I have found out through it all is Mui Tai doesn't stand a chance in a real situation and thats what I'm learning. Which Fighting style is more usefull for my line of work, Ive fought in every situation imaginable speacially with no shoes. I didn't grow up in the best neiborhood, I was even one of the bad people who were sneaking into houses stealing what ever I could find but its what I do. Just like my job now is to Test out every type of fighting style to see if they keep up to standards.

Maybe when I'm done I will lean Mui Tai and we'll have some fun beating each other to a pulp Tenchu.

[Lyric]

[quote=Tenchu;351302][color="Magenta"]You think? I doubt devotion of your concern toward another defines a Warrior. Many Samurai said this was a negeative thing, actually. And one of the greatest Warriors, and one of my favorite, Genghis Khan, was more brutal than a rageing mad dog. Well, I have said it before, I will say it again, but no one listens. Brutality is the heart of the Warrior, and all killing is murder, you only warp it with ornamental words. But it is actions that define the truth of a person, not the thoughts they are thinking.... You know I find it a little funny people who are as far from Warriors as my eyes are from the sky lecture about what they actually are that defines them...

I know the truth, the purpose of Iaido/ Kenjitsu or any martial art for that matter is purely for killing. When you set your self to kill, you must be dam sure you are ready to do the job. understand yourself, if you do not, you will fail and die. Without heart, or devotion in the soul, you will fade inside from senseless murder. If you think life is a game and you only learn to kill, then in this world all you will be is the definition of blood lust.

"The man whose profession is arms should calm his mind and look into the depths of others. Doing so is the best of the martial arts".

Do not turn my own words against me to argue, just respect my way as I do yours. Samurai, by different codes of Bushido, (specifically Hagakure) all believed together in utmost respect for human kind. Even though they, in ways, destroyed it. Never, did they pick up a blade without a reason, today it should be the same way. If you have ever killed you would understand the horrors it can afflict on the body, mind and soul, Skill is nothing, if you cant live with the burden, "never should anyone have disregard for human life"

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Hyakushi

Sure killing someone in battle is common one kick to my opponents kidney is all I need to put them down for good. So what kind of good battle would it be if it ends so quickly, I want something challenging.

I don't know why you're complaining about rules. You know that fighting with your bare fists is also a limitation you restrict yourself too. If I was in a street fight my first thought would be to find something that will give me an advantage over my opponent (or rather, in the case of a street fight, evens things up). A pool cue, a rock... anything.

[Amnell]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

And you think I think that why? Kenpo is about the same as most clubs these days. And Krav Maga is different. That is for military. They usually have pretty shameful goals these days, and Israeli military, where it came from, are some of the worst for this. Either way, that style is not built for Warriors, it is built for Soldiers...

I read between the lines. Given your stance on certain techniques, you would frown on many of the basic principles of those two styles. That's why I think that.

Kenpo teaches you to take advantage of whatever opening is given to you. Yes, if I were in a knife fight and my opponent was stupid enough to expose his back, I would stab him. In fact, I would probably be the cause of his turning his back. My instructor taught from a defensive stand-point. His philosophy was this: put yourself in a position to cause a lot of damage without taking any, if possible. We did a lot of techniques that taught us how to get from a person's inside to his outside where he would be unable to strike back.

You say Krav maga was developed for the military... okay... well, wasn't Kenjutsu? Do you even know what Bushido means? Yeah, yeah, "Way of the warrior" blah blah. Bu, the first character, means "Military". The second symbol means "a learned man". And of course, do means "way". So, all those arts that came out of the Japanese mainland and were used by the Bushi were all developed for military purposes. Gee, I wonder if that's why they're all called "MARTIAL arts", seeing as "bu" and "martial" mean the same thing.

Krav maga teaches people to fight against multiple opponents in a worst case scenario. Hence, its techniques involve the quick immobilization of each opponent with minimal recieved damage so that the Warrior may disable as many opponents as possible before he is himself disabled.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I am really lacking as to what your concept of honorable is based on. You seem to believe that some people are lower than you, so you should fight them in a disrespectful manner because of this or something. Very rude idea, if you ask me... I would never touch the groin or the eyes, or an unprotected back. You should learn to respect even those you fight. Esp. being American, if you hate everyone you are up against, you will be so full of hate that it will ultimately cloud your vision of reality.

When it comes to a fight to the death (on the individual level), respect for the opponent only gets in the way. In my eyes, honourable combat is a fair fight. Honourable victory is winning by the complete overwhelming of the enemy. This is on the individual level.

And plus: what's more disrespectful? Me kicking the guy in the groin, or him pulling a gun on me out of no where for no apparent reason? If someone chooses to threaten my life, in my eyes, he has forfeited his own life. By trying to impose upon my rights as an individual, he has lowered himself to least common denominator and therefore deserves no respect.

A formal comatant would not be thought of like this. An arranged fight would be much different. I would not strike to the groin then, unless it was previously agreed to be allowed or my opponent made it clear that he would fight by those rules, anyway.

And don't start with your immature anti-american bullshit. We had that discussion already.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Well they sound like powerful and effective techniques... Like I said, a Soldier is doing a job, and most of them are blind anyway. If you are all worried about self defence and your life is so important to you, fine, do whatever you can to stay alive. The concept of the Warrior I think you are missing is that survival is not the only part to life. Some things are more important. As far as I am concerned, a coward is someone who does not recognize this.

Yes, a soldier is doing a job. Just like the Bushi were doing one thousand years ago.

Has it occured to you that maybe Bushido isn't the ONLY way of the warrior? The Samurai fought to win or die trying. A soldier today fights to complete the mission as effectively as possible, and is ready to die trying (though they don't plan on it). What's the difference? Is the soldier who storms a multi-story building any less of a warrior than the samurai who sieged a castle?

A coward is someone who gives in to his fear of dying and runs away. A warrior is anyone who knows he could die yet proceeds anyway. You don't have to idolize death to be immune to the fear of it, and saying otherwise is narrow-minded.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Fighting is like a vaccine. You take vaccinations that are made of the disease you try and cure, and eventually become immune to it.

True enough. But, you don't HAVE to take a vaccine in order to not get sick. Simply avoiding situations where you could become infected is enough, really. You can also take all kinds of supplements to boost your immune system. Taking the vaccine isn't an absolute must. It's just the best way. Example: I mentioned my USMC friend who told me about the usage of a knife in a fight. I may not have learned the lesson of willpower and weapons from experience, but I still learned the lesson.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What I meant is someone can only learn a few techniques to protect themselves by doing it part time. Use the vaccination idea again. Ever done Hep B vacs? You gotta get 3 shots, right? Well, part time is like the first shot, but useless without the other two, just gives you a taste, but you achieve nothing. You really need to learn to stop useing the word Warrior. It is fine if you say soldier or samaratin or whatever, but leave the idea of Warrior for someone occupied with something, okay. Or I suppose someone who has shot a Bow before once is a qualified archer to you, right"? LOL

But unlike vaccinations, knowing two or three techniques might be enough. Besides, if a part-time student were attacked and he REALLY had the will to survive, it wouldn't matter how many techniques he'd learned.

A part time student has considerably more experience than a person who's shot a bow one time. Even part time is better than no time.

And I will say warrior where I deem it necessary.

Btw, people don't have so much respect for the American military because we're a bunch of pansies. It's because our soldiers are warriors. The Marine Corps, especially, spends a lot of time drilling warrior edicts into the heads of its recriuts. They may not stem from Bushido, but that doesn't matter. We're Americans, not Japanese.

Oh, yeah... There's a semantic difference between "murder" and "kill". I suggest you check a very good dictionary before you try saying that they are the same thing.

[Ronin4hire]

Warrior- Somebody who is proficient or engages in warfare

Soldier- A warrior who fights on behalf of something (a state, a nation, an organisation etc.)

Basically everything else you two add on in your own personal definitions means nothing outside of your mind. Stop trying to convince each other that you're right and the other is wrong.