The truth about East Asians....

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by anrakushi

maybe so but you made this comment earlier.



this is why i replied with an example of how japanese are a seperate race. i never said it was pure but it is a seperate race. i love how you keep forgetting what you are saying yourself and have a go at the people here trying to respond to your topic.

Fair enough... you caught me out there. I get confused when replying to all the points that various people have thrown at me.

However you didn't prove that the Japanese were a seperate race though.

From your link

"It is believed that the Jōmon had very likely migrated from North Asia or Central Asia and became the Ainu of today. Research suggests that the Ainu retain a certain degree of uniqueness in their genetic make-up, while having some affinities with different regional populations in Japan as well as the Nivkhs of the Russian Far East. Based on more than a dozen genetic markers on a variety of chromosomes and from archaeological data showing habitation of the Japanese Archipelago dating back 30,000 years, it is argued that the Jōmon actually came from northeastern Asia and settled on the islands far earlier than some have proposed"

"Around 400-300 BCE, the Yayoi people began to enter the Japanese islands, intermingling with the Jōmon. Most modern scholars say that the Yayoi emigrated from the southern part of the Korean Peninsula to northern Kyūshū, though it has also been proposed that they came from southeastern China. The Yayoi brought wet-rice farming and advanced bronze and iron technology to Japan. Although the islands were already abundant with resources for hunting and dry-rice farming, Yayoi farmers created more productive wet-rice paddy field systems. "

So basically... the Jomon and Yayoi were tribes of people that emigrated from OTHER PARTS OF ASIA.

[anrakushi]

well if you want to get anal about it we can say there are no races on earth because if the out of africa theory is to be believed then we all emigrated from Africa. where do you draw the line of a different race? you can't honestly believe that in all of East Asia (China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc) that they are the same race.

30,000 years ago is a long time, those original Jōmon people would have been on the island isolated (due to the land bridge melting) long enough to have developed their own features and into their own race. Hell even the Ainu who are in the northern part of Japan managed to stay isolated enough from the inhabitants of the rest of Japan to develop their own race.

i was just providing an example, most people would see how that would lead to a different race but it seems you won't unless you see scientific evidence. such evidence i am sure you can find yourself if you do a bit of research.

i have no doubt in my mind if you do some research you will find that anthropologists agree that the japanese are a seperace race from the chinese. then as both the han chinese and the japanese races are the majority of the two countries in population you can possibly understand how we are able to mostly, not perfectly, identify which country people come from due to their appearance.

all the best ^^

[ivi0nk3y]

I think I can tell Indonesians/Malaysians/Phillipino apart from Japanese/Chinese/Korean.
Then again why does it matter?
Just wait a while and let them speak before you wonder where they're from

[Hatenko]

You can tell sometimes (it's still a guess of course) maybe it's me but I'm often really close. And not with Asian people alone, there are ways to tell that someone is from France or England too. It's mostly guessing though, I think.

[ivi0nk3y]

I'm personally very good at knowing someones nationality. But then thats only because i've interacted with a lot of different people in my time. Its only because you've interacted with people that you'd know where they're from based on instinct and past experience.
I don't think its a natural talent that people possess.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

What do you mean there is no science when talking about nationality? A nation is defined as a self-aware group of people that share a common, imagined identity with political aspirations of self government.

My friend claims that he can tell them apart and you're agreeing with him. THAT is what we are discussing. I'd say THAT is what is unscientific.

Your assertion is that Japanese, Chinese, Korean are in fact not nationalities but seperate and distinct races? Really? You have proof to show that these nationalities are divided along racial lines? I mean Japan China and Korea share the same geographic region. The difference between climate and diet between the countries isn't great either. I don't know how you can say with certainty that they are seperate races. You've even admitted yourself that in that test you did, you got some wrong. If the test was between Nigerians and Japanese I'm sure you wouldn't get ANY wrong.

Ronin4Hire, no need to get frustrated.

I didn't say that Japanese, Chinese and Korean are seperate races. I said they they often identify themselves as more than separate countries, but separate races. I cannot say with certainty that they are or not, but if they are NOT seperate races, no one should be able to score more than 6 points on that test. I got 13. Noodle did even better.

We are talking about biological and genetic tendancies. Being from a certain nation doesn't change how you look, but being born in a certain gene-pool does. That's why I say "nationality" doesn't matter.

I didn't say I could identify Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans 100%. I said I had familiarity with people from all three regions and had confidence in my ability to distinguish one from another to a certain degree. This was because you said it was impossible to do so. I think we can see that it is possible to do so. I can't more any more than what I did above as to "why".

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You know, this is a pretty darn borin topic to be haveing a heated debate over. I think we will all agree, you can tell sometimes, but it really is a little hazy, and mistakes can be made. If there is a difference, it is as slight as the difference between 7 Eleven and Family Mart...

I am not sure what the debate is about. The question is "is it possible?" the answer is "yes". Not much more to say...

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by anrakushi

well if you want to get anal about it we can say there are no races on earth because if the out of africa theory is to be believed then we all emigrated from Africa. where do you draw the line of a different race? you can't honestly believe that in all of East Asia (China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc) that they are the same race.

OK... sorry to come across as being "anal". This is a topic that I actually have researched before (I wouldn't say I'm an expert as I'm not a biologist or anything, rather I've looked stuff up and am interested in the topic.). My position actually is influenced by the science (or lack of science as it's been discovered since around the 1970's) surrounding racial theory. You're right.... I don't believe all of Asia are the same race. However I don't believe any pure racial lines exist which coincide with national boundaries (and this is where science agrees with me for the most part... and I say for the most part because a few scientists actually disagree with the majority consensus. You might be convinced by their arguments but I'm not.) . Sure you might see some tendencies.

The fact is that race simply doesn't exist genetically. That there is as much genetic variation between race as there is within a race is the majority consensus amongst scientists (again there are dissenters to this conclusion). Race is convenient in medicine in which research has shown that certain regions of the world show certain tendencies with regard to illnesses. But it is only for convenience that they use "race". It is in the same regard that I hold race. Because we're isolating physical characteristics in this thread, I think it's safe and convenient to talk of "race". In the context of the world I'm sure you can see where the "racial lines" are drawn. However because I believe that the region of Far East Asia is too small a region for any "racial lines" to be drawn (at least based on area within the region. And area combined with language and very often but not always, culture is usually the core of what defines a particular nation within a geographic region.)

I have tried looking through the internet to find clearcut physical differences that have been proved between Japanese and Chinese. I can't find anything. The closest thing approaching the topic is that "alllooksthesame.com" which doesn't say anything conclusive. In fact I think the maker of the site (who is Asian) sort of implies that there isn't a difference too.

From his website-

"In the US, publicly admitting that you cannot tell Asians apart, comes across sounding racist or prejudiced. But deep down, most people feel that. In other words, you feel it, but you are not allowed to admit it. For many people, this feeling has been subconsciously suppressed for a long time. But with this site, knowing that it was created by an Asian man, these people finally felt safe to admit what they had been feeling. It’s this release that makes this site funny for these people.

On the opposite end, we have people who have always believed that they can tell Asians apart no problem. They typically have certain preconceptions about how each nationality looks. For instance, there are people who think that any Asian who is fashionably dressed is Japanese. This probably comes from the media which frequently covers the modern Japanese culture, but not so much of China or Korea. Most people’s perception of Chinese, for instance, may be what you see in “Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon.” The problem here is that these people would see a fashionable Asian, without confirming it in any way, assumes they are right, and end up affirming their own convictions. This is also a form of prejudice, and for many of them, the test on this site made them realize how wrong they were. This humbling experience was quite funny for some of them."

It is the second paragraph that I agree with completely. (The first paragraph sounds like he is talking about not being able to tell the difference when it comes to culture. Of course culturally these nations are quite distinct.)

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am not sure what the debate is about. The question is "is it possible?" the answer is "yes". Not much more to say...

Wrong. It is presumptuous if the only clue you have is physical appearance.

Of course if there are other clues then depending on the clues it might be possible to make an educated guess at best.

[hypekstatic]

Let me break it down for you people, plain and simple.

You cannot tell asians apart. It is impossible. You can try, but your accuracy is only based off GENETICAL or physical stereotypical attributes. (You will think a girl with small, single eyelid eyes, side sweeped bangs, and flat small nose is Korean. as an example.)

Korea was ruled by japan and china at one point in history.
Alot of women were enslaved by men from Japan and China....
Many unwanted, some consentual even, mixed births were apparent in that era. If you look at Japan now, alot of Koreans live there. In fact alot of Korean blooded people are not even aknowledged as Koreans, they are citizens, born and living in Japan, therefore they are legally and rightfully, JAPANESE. Those people are called Zainichi Korean. My friend is half Zainichi Korean, half Chinese. So technically... she is Korean, Japanese, AND Chinese. lol.
Because history of these countries show mixture in blood, you cannot look at a Japanese person and assume they are PURE Japanese blood. Technically it may not exist in their blood. I'm not saying ALL Japanese people are either Korean or Chinese mixed but a big percentage is likely (i'm talking about older generations, not 2nd generation....)
I work in japan town in california and I see Asians all the time and I cant tell them apart. One of the regulars is Zainichi Korean, but you would never second guess that she's Japanese, becacuse she looks like the typical Japanese person.

Crystal Kay a popular Japanese pop artist is half african american, half ZAINICHI Korean. Her mom is Zainichi Korean, but technically she is half Japanese.

VERBAL the MC of M-FLO is Zainichi Korean. He is fluent in both languages but still.... he isnt classified as a "Korean" artist, he is "JAPANESE."

MIYAVI , okay who the hell doesnt know Miyavi... lol alot of people don't know this, and I didnt even know this until recently, but he's half Japanese, half Zainichi Korean. That means technically he is just JAPANESE, but being zainichi korean just means you are Japanese but you have the Korean blood.
Can you tell all these people are KOREAN, half KOREAN just by looking at them? I didn't think so....