History ~ December 1941 : Hong Kong Falls To Japan

[Ryzorian]

They were broken three months before Pearl Harbor. FDR's information about knowing things before hand was known by the Republican's even back then. Hell, we knew what was written on the "declaration of war" before the diplomat who was decodeing it did.

Germany was looseing by D-Day and most of the German commanders knew it. They had the best trained troops, what few where left, best tanks..what few they built, some of the best planes...those that could still fly. Against them was numbers untold. Th US alone had 15 million troops in uniform by then.

[GoNative]

Can you provide us some links to papers that support your claims Ryzorian? And preferably not from some nut case conspiracy website, if that's possible.

[fluffy0000]

JN 25 code was not cracked before Dec 7 1941 , JN 25 was first introduced by the IJN Japanese Navy in 1939. The fantasy of revisionist Pearl Harbor historians can not even admit that the United States especially the Navy did not have a cohesive unit of codebreakers until well after Pearl Harbor.

U.S. intelligence efforts then focused on cracking JN–25. Leading the effort, code-named Magic, was the U.S. Navy's Combat Intelligence Unit, called OP–20–G and consisting of 738 naval personnel. The unit, housed in the basement of the 14th Naval District Administration at Pearl Harbor, was under the command of Commodore John Rochefort.

Using complex mathematical analysis, IBM punch-card tabulating machines, and a cipher machine, which did not exist before Dec.7 1941' the United States developed the ECM Mark III, the unit was able to crack most of the code by January 1942.
The blanket name given to any information gained by deciphering JN–25 was Ultra, a word borrowed from British code breaking efforts and stamped at the top of all deciphered messages.

[Unknown]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

They were broken three months before Pearl Harbor. FDR's information about knowing things before hand was known by the Republican's even back then. Hell, we knew what was written on the "declaration of war" before the diplomat who was decodeing it did.

Germany was looseing by D-Day and most of the German commanders knew it. They had the best trained troops, what few where left, best tanks..what few they built, some of the best planes...those that could still fly. Against them was numbers untold. Th US alone had 15 million troops in uniform by then.

Thats only because Hitler was a bad leader along with the Allies catching Germanty off guard 6/6/44.If any German Commanders were present especially Rommel it would have been a completely different outcome since they would have stopped them at the beaches.Numbers mean nothing if your unaccustomed in experience

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Unknown

I know they were not at war I'am just saying most people think Japan was behind Pearl Harbor when its really Hitler.He lead them to believe that both his LuffeWaffe and their Kamikaze Pilots would attack on the same day but as a result did not keep his word like always.This was done mainly because all three Axis powers were steadily building up their war machines prior to WW2 and by doing the above his would be the largest since the Allies would look at them(Japan) and not him

How do you know all this?

[Ryzorian]

Eh, I just remember stuff from History Channle, I suspect they would have a website. Reguardless, the Oil embargo was designed to trigger exactly what Japan did, so FDR could declare war on Germany. Even then I'm not really that bothered by the act itself, Washington did the same thing at Trenton against the Hessians. Sneek attacks happen.

[dogsbody70]

well there is alittle about it on wikipedia I tlooks as thought Nazi Germany helped financially, but I was under the inpression that JAPAn wanted to take over the whole of ASIA before bring America into the war.

It was all terrible and barbaric-----------

Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American Volunteer Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ryzorian]

War's are fought for a varity of reasons. Some sound more noble than they turn out to be. General Robert E. Lee mentioned that it was a good thing that war was so terrible, or humanity would enjoy it too much. Japan wanted to unify Asia under Imperial Japanese rule, no they didn't want to start a fight with the US, at least not imediately. The embaro pushed thier hand early because the were running out of fuel and steel.

I would suggest that war is actually successful more often than not, that's why it happens so much. Somebody wants freedom, or power, or wealth, or land, or resources or a water port. whatever reasons they have, they make viable economic and political sense to the individuals at the time.

The Mexican American war increased American land mass by a considerable amount, the Civil War freed the slaves, the American Indian wars opened access to resources and mineral wealth plus large tracts of land for farming and population growth. Spanish American war brought the US wrold stage notice as well as over seas colonies.

You can say these wars were all bad, and perhaps they were in the sense that much violence was done and innocent people were hurt/killed/ driven from thier lands. However, someone also benifited from said actions. It's those benifits that encourages war. It's really just a national version of bully's takeing lunch money from those weaker than they are. The weak can't stop it and the bully gets free lunches.

[fluffy0000]

Japan was already at war before Dec.7 1941. More revisionist fantasy blaming a economic embargo by the US on Japan for causing Japan to go to war? Japan was already at war. The Second Sino Japanese War 1937-1945'. Japan and China had already fought intermittently since 1931. The Second Sino-Japanese War was the largest Asian war in the 20th century. It also made up more than 50% of the casualties in the Pacific War if the 1937-1941 period is taken into account.

On top of this Japan also fought another war with Russia after the Russo-Japanese war of 1904–05. In August 1939, just weeks before Hitler invaded Poland, the Soviet Union and Japan fought a massive tank battle on the Mongolian border – the largest the world had ever seen. In terms of its strategic impact, the battle of Khalkhin Gol was one of the most decisive battles of the Second World War which effectively stopped Japans expansion in the Far East along the Mongolia,Manchuria borders.

[dogsbody70]

It seems that ever since time began there has always been war. I hate it.

War can turn normal human beings into terrible tyrants who inflict too much cruelty on each other and Prisoners of war.

When I read about the cruelty inflicted onto many who were POW's at that time, the MINES, the Burmese Railway building etc. That was mans inhumanity to MAN.

What turns a previously decent human being into a killing machine, willing to sacrifice their own lives for the CAUSE- So many are mere pawns, willing to die for the Emperor.- I guess its within each of us to do this if something triggers it-- fanaticism--Mass Brain washing--

As for the rape of NANKING? I shudder when I learn of all the cruelty there and other places. Human beings lives just so insignificant. The killing Lust that must overtake those out to conquer other countries.

Then the externination of so many with firebombing and finally Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Will we ever ever learn? It is doubtful., But it is real human beings caught up in war.