Women in Japan

[kunitokotachi]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Wow you just totally went off on another tangent. Do you ever have any idea of what the context of a thread is when you reply to it?
Noone is telling women that they should stay home. However it is because of the fact that women are going out to work more and more that Japan is in trouble. Also denying that women are not closer to their children, naturally, than fathers, is extreme ignorance.
Did you read anything anyone said before you got on your soap box and started stating achievements by women?
Once more, it doesn't look like it.

Dammit, you're infinite ignorance amazes me. I tried to be nice but then you come up on here and spew gonorrhea from your mouth. First of all I never attacked you even with your idiotic statements about women. Also, who goes off on tangents? Do you know what that word means? I digressed? The person who started this thread compared anime females to actual Japanese females and here is a comment you made:

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Women are better with children naturally. That is why it is tradition for women to stay home you're denying this.

Now genius, you tell me who digressed. In addition, you made an uneducated statement based on what? If you can't put up legitimate peer-reviewed studies then silence is the best course of action for you. I posted womens' accomplishments... your point is? Hopefully it helped your misguided ass understand that parenting skills and accomplishments have nothing to do with gender.

Also, Japan is in trouble because women are working more? All right Sherlock you explain to me how academically or don't say anything at all. Furthermore, in all actuality what the fuck do you know about Japanese lifestyle? Don't give me a link to .com or a news website. Put up some serious peer-reviewed data or back your ass up.

[Amnell]

Whoa, dude, Kunitokotachi, CHILL OUT.

First, ivi0nk3y didn't say you were attacking him that I saw. Second, your whole post was a little off-the-wall. As far as I saw, no one had been talking about women being inferior or never accomplishing anything or w/e.

Now, I do respect your opinion. But seriously. Chill out.

[kunitokotachi]

It has just been an ongoing thing with the guy from a previous post. Ivionk has suggested in previous posts that women should stay in certain roles and that we shouldn't try to alter our thinking. Also, I had never used the word inferior in any of my posts. The guy then starts saying that I got up on my "soap box" and going off on tangents. Like I said this is a continuation from a previous post. My purpose of listing the achievements was to show that more women should aspire to be more than a housewife because they have contributed so much. Anyways, I got a little irked because the guy always runs his mouth without listing any data and seems to come up with silly little come backs like you were off in "never never land," "soap box," He actually says some decent stuff sometimes but with this particular topic... About the attacking portion, I was basically implying that he needed to "chill out" because he was started to get a little rude.

[Amnell]

Ah... Well, the thing you need to remember about debating with anyone who is devout (and I mean devout) in Christianity, Judaism, or Islam is that they're all taught that the man is the head of the household. In many cases (I'd say 'most', but I can't back that), people of these faiths take that to the next level: women are supposed to be subservient to men. Since ivi0nk3y is in fact a muslim, you should expect that his views on gender roles are a little more conservative. Even with me, being raised in an obscure sect of Christianity, expect some gender bias (though I've been trying to retrain myself XP ) .

[noodle]

Actually kunitokotachi, ivi0nk3y is right... I've read at least 3 articles on the decline of the Japanese population due to all the factors he stated... And no, they are not .com articles, nor are they not backed with research!

I think the point that you should get from what he's saying is that, we being humans have a sort of obligation to have children and raise a family! Thinking that you shouldn't do that is just selfish. Imagine that if everyone said, oh, well someone else can have children. That will only lead to disaster and the extinction of the human race. If anyone disagrees with that, then I really don’t' have a clue to why it is you are alive...

And again, about the women bringing up children, it is also PROVEN (not that it was ever needed) that women/mothers are naturally better at raising a child. And coming back with something like, anyone of the parents could be a crappy parent is just not the point. There are exceptions to every rule! But, if you come back and prove me that this applies to a percentage higher than 1% then I’ll consider it a possibility!

Yes, you’re right. Women have achieved some great things, and no one is telling them not to! But what does that have to do with anything? Personally I think the fact that a woman raises a child to be a good person is the biggest achievement of all! The fact that a women can give birth is another achievement that we men should be envious of!
So stating everything that women have achieved or men have achieved is nothing compared to the two above!


One other thing. I’ve always wanted to ask this to “Girl Power” extremists like yourself and many of the people here. Why do you think it is that throughout the history of mankind, men and women had their places? Why didn’t men stay at home when the baby was born? AND, why do you believe so strongly that something natural (and normal) is so wrong? I don’t think people like you realise that, apart from the modernized countries, many women still take up the role of being mothers even with an education and a job with a great career. They take a couple of years from their careers to pursue a career that is more fulfilling than any other. I think you guys need to just sit down and think, why has it been like this for millennia’s and why do I feel the urge to suddenly drastically change everything!

[kunitokotachi]

Originally Posted by Amnell

Ah... Well, the thing you need to remember about debating with anyone who is devout (and I mean devout) in Christianity, Judaism, or Islam is that they're all taught that the man is the head of the household. In many cases (I'd say 'most', but I can't back that), people of these faiths take that to the next level: women are supposed to be subservient to men. Since ivi0nk3y is in fact a muslim, you should expect that his views on gender roles are a little more conservative. Even with me, being raised in an obscure sect of Christianity, expect some gender bias (though I've been trying to retrain myself XP ) .

I guess that's something that I didn't account for. If that is indeed where he is coming from, I'm not going to step on whatever he believes or interprets as is. I'll just leave the issue alone in his case. I just had a problem with him coming at me like that out of the blue. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Amnell

Ah... Well, the thing you need to remember about debating with anyone who is devout (and I mean devout) in Christianity, Judaism, or Islam is that they're all taught that the man is the head of the household. In many cases (I'd say 'most', but I can't back that), people of these faiths take that to the next level: women are supposed to be subservient to men. Since ivi0nk3y is in fact a muslim, you should expect that his views on gender roles are a little more conservative. Even with me, being raised in an obscure sect of Christianity, expect some gender bias (though I've been trying to retrain myself XP ) .

Dude, what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with it, and you seriously need to stop mentioning religion in everything because you keep proving that you only know what is taught to you on tv and the internet. Islam has nothing to do with it. If you knew anything about Islam you'd see that in many if not most muslim countries, women DO get an education, women DO pursue careers, women DO have a choice.

Also, saying something like that about him is rather ridiculous since i'm sure he see's his mother as the strongest figure in his life. From what i now about him so far, i've figured that his mother raised him alone whilst working! So equality for women isn't the problem for him as he sees that women can be strong!

[Amnell]

Originally Posted by kunitokotachi

I guess that's something that I didn't account for. If that is indeed where he is coming from, I'm not going to step on whatever he believes or interprets as is. I'll just leave the issue alone in his case. I just had a problem with him coming at me like that out of the blue. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding.

Well, if he was "coming out of the blue", then the standpoint of tradition is why it was so sudden. However, just because one holds a traditional standpoint does not mean that one is wrong. Noodle's argument is very sound and quite valid, and it's coming from a completely secular standpoint, even though Noodle is also a muslim. So bear that in mind, also.

Personally, I think I agree with noodle more .

[Amnell]

Originally Posted by noodle

Dude, what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with it, and you seriously need to stop mentioning religion in everything because you keep proving that you only know what is taught to you on tv and the internet. Islam has nothing to do with it. If you knew anything about Islam you'd see that in many if not most muslim countries, women DO get an education, women DO pursue careers, women DO have a choice.

Also, saying something like that about him is rather ridiculous since i'm sure he see's his mother as the strongest figure in his life. From what i now about him so far, i've figured that his mother raised him alone whilst working! So equality for women isn't the problem for him as he sees that women can be strong!

Aaaaah~! I didn't say or even imply that Islamic countries don't educate their women!!! Mer, I think you're jumping to conclusion based on our past discussion :P .

All I said was that those three religions are patriarchal, and a lot of people erroneously take it too far. That's all I said! I was making no assumptions about ivi0nk3y's position or relationships with women. I was only stating that one should expect some gender bias from anyone who is a firm believer in those three faiths.

And having been raised a Christian, this I did not learn from TV. We did actually have quite a few sessions where we contrasted our (correction: 'their') beliefs with those of mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Despite what I may have said about islamic terrorist organizations or other such things, I'm not COMPLETELY ignorant of Islam and it's more basic principles.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Amnell

Aaaaah~! I didn't say or even imply that Islamic countries don't educate their women!!! Mer, I think you're jumping to conclusion based on our past discussion :P .

All I said was that those three religions are patriarchal, and a lot of people erroneously take it too far. That's all I said! I was making no assumptions about ivi0nk3y's position or relationships with women. I was only stating that one should expect some gender bias from anyone who is a firm believer in those three faiths.

And having been raised a Christian, this I did not learn from TV. We did actually have quite a few sessions where we contrasted our (correction: 'their') beliefs with those of mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Despite what I may have said about islamic terrorist organizations or other such things, I'm not COMPLETELY ignorant of Islam and it's more basic principles.

lol. No no... I didn't say you said that about muslim countries. I'm just pointing that out to you to show you that Islam may believe that it's our duty to raise a family and have children but thats about it. It still leaves freedom for women! that was my point!

And yeah, thats what i mean. A believer of those 3 faiths doesn't imply what you've said. It doesn't imply bias views on women in our society!

And i didn't imply you were ignorant, though reading it now i do see why you think that. I'm sorry about that. What i was trying to say is that for you to understand exactly what Islam is about, you'd have to study it well. Not just some lessons here and there from school, or just a little checking on Wiki etc...


EDIT: anyway, i think we should move on from the religion as i thinkt his thread has turnt quiete interesting and i'd hate to see it shut down! Again, sorry for seeming a little "in your face"... reading it back now, it does seem a little agressive!