2012?

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by alanX

If the History Channel isn't good enough for you then nothing is

This isn't something I can argue (requiring evidence to demonstrate) but, no, the History Channel is not sufficient proof. Any TV program, for that matter, is not. No channel or program is. You have to cite specific academics. This isn't because a channel or program may be unreliable in itself, but because these things don't have to provide reliable evidence.

For example you can often watch such documentaries, and many of the witnesses or speakers will be unaccredited people who have a vested interest. They sell books on the topic or something. The documentary has them there for 'balance' and to keep the listener hooked. It usually goes something like:

could this be true???
this guy says so: oh yes it's true
however, this guy says not: nah it's hooey
but questions still remain!: they can't explain this and that
it's a mystery! :O

Whether you believe in whatever the issue is, this kinda format for a popular documentary is common and pretty unscientific. You can't even give the documentary credence for having relevant academics on because it will often sideline them.

Not to suggest that the documentary you watched was like this, or that all history channel docs must be (haven't seen it or them all), but without having to watch either this is a fair assumption for me to have?

Counter argument from a specific academic:

Does Maya calendar predict 2012 apocalypse? - USATODAY.com

Its Long Count calendar, which was discontinued under Spanish colonization, tracks more than 5,000 years, then resets at year zero.

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

Part of the 2012 mystique stems from the stars. On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years. This means that "whatever energy typically streams to Earth from the center of the Milky Way will indeed be disrupted on 12/21/12 at 11:11 p.m. Universal Time," Joseph writes.

But scholars doubt the ancient Maya extrapolated great meaning from anticipating the alignment — if they were even aware of what the configuration would be.

Astronomers generally agree that "it would be impossible the Maya themselves would have known that," says Susan Milbrath, a Maya archaeoastronomer and a curator at the Florida Museum of Natural History. What's more, she says, "we have no record or knowledge that they would think the world would come to an end at that point."

University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie says the 2012 phenomenon comes "from media and from other people making use of the Maya past to fulfill agendas that are really their own."

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by alanX

But what you just said is also an opinion. So you should have started that statement with "I believe" as well, aye?

No it wasn't.

This thread is about shifting through bullshit to discover facts. People listing beliefs does not really help, especially when they don't state it's a belief.

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by alanX

But what you just said is also an opinion. So you should have started that statement with "I believe" as well, aye?

In a forum people are usually allowed to wield their opinion around loosely. However, this is a kinda sensitive topic. Have you read various people's posts saying 'I'm scared of this being true'? Please don't suggest anything that could scare anyone without sufficient proof. Your opinion is welcome, but if you make a post saying 'this could happen, who knows' you make the event seem like a 50/50 chance, scaring people who aren't able to look into it further. Not that you are automatically right or wrong by saying this, but in this instance (different from saying, Honda Civic is a bad car or w/e) you kinda have a responsibility to pony up actual reasons (IMO).

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Skuu

This isn't something I can argue (requiring evidence to demonstrate) but, no, the History Channel is not sufficient proof.

I watched their show on YouTube.

Straight up, it pulls out a claim from a picture that the arrow of Sagutarius and a women in it form a cross... and that is signifigant... WTF?

I also have a prophecy and would like to declare a Saint: when I saw Saaya Irie last my penis pointed to the heavens. Therefor, she must be holy. LOL.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Skuu

In a forum people are usually allowed to wield their opinion around loosely. However, this is a kinda sensitive topic. Have you read various people's posts saying 'I'm scared of this being true'? Please don't suggest anything that could scare anyone without sufficient proof. Your opinion is welcome, but if you make a post saying 'this could happen, who knows' you make the event seem like a 50/50 chance, scaring people who aren't able to look into it further. Not that you are automatically right or wrong by saying this, but in this instance (different from saying, Honda Civic is a bad car or w/e) you kinda have a responsibility to pony up actual reasons (IMO).

If people get scared because of something Alan says, then they deserve to die.

What are we surrounded by 5 year olds?

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

If people get scared because of something Alan says, then they deserve to die.

What are we surrounded by 5 year olds?

I dunno the ages of people on this forum exactly, but as I said there's been a few posted worried about this topic, so it's important to be responsible with what you're claiming.

[alanX]

Originally Posted by Skuu

This isn't something I can argue (requiring evidence to demonstrate) but, no, the History Channel is not sufficient proof. Any TV program, for that matter, is not. No channel or program is. You have to cite specific academics. This isn't because a channel or program may be unreliable in itself, but because these things don't have to provide reliable evidence.

For example you can often watch such documentaries, and many of the witnesses or speakers will be unaccredited people who have a vested interest. They sell books on the topic or something. The documentary has them there for 'balance' and to keep the listener hooked. It usually goes something like:

could this be true???
this guy says so: oh yes it's true
however, this guy says not: nah it's hooey
but questions still remain!: they can't explain this and that
it's a mystery! :O

Whether you believe in whatever the issue is, this kinda format for a popular documentary is common and pretty unscientific. You can't even give the documentary credence for having relevant academics on because it will often sideline them.

Not to suggest that the documentary you watched was like this, or that all history channel docs must be (haven't seen it or them all), but without having to watch either this is a fair assumption for me to have?

Counter argument from a specific academic:

Does Maya calendar predict 2012 apocalypse? - USATODAY.com

Please, just give it up. It simply says "Scientists believe"
That's your que to go google some, buddy. I'm not going to sit here and do research for you.

I don't believe we are all going to die on December 12th. However, scientists believe the outer most tectonic plate of the Earth will completely rotate, which will cause destruction in some form. The Mayans predicted this also.

Take it or leave it, love it or hate it, this is what they think. Want some "sufficient proof?" Then stop arguing with me and go to the library. Whatever you believe, this is what scientists believe.

[alanX]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

If people get scared because of something Alan says, then they deserve to die.

What are we surrounded by 5 year olds?

Now, this is something I cannot argue with.

[Skuu]

Originally Posted by alanX

Please, just give it up. It simply says "Scientists believe"
That's your que to go google some, buddy. I'm not going to sit here and do research for you.

I don't believe we are all going to die on December 12th. However, scientists believe the outer most tectonic plate of the Earth will completely rotate, which will cause destruction in some form. The Mayans predicted this also.

Take it or leave it, love it or hate it, this is what they think. Want some "sufficient proof?" Then stop arguing with me and go to the library. Whatever you believe, this is what scientists believe.

I'm really sorry. I was polite to you in my response, I'd appreciate the same. Doesn't really matter about the content of a post as long as it's friendly. We can work out our disagreements based on facts, not based on belittlement. I've read your posts and you're a very intelligent, well mannered guy.

The article I linked to mentions specific experts in the relevant fields:
Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla.
Susan Milbrath, a Maya archaeoastronomer and a curator at the Florida Museum of Natural History.
University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie


Are the scientists you're referencing about tectonic destruction in the documentary? I'll watch it and find them if necessary.

[alanX]

Originally Posted by Skuu

I'm really sorry. I was polite to you in my response, I'd appreciate the same. Doesn't really matter about the content of a post as long as it's friendly. We can work out our disagreements based on facts, not based on belittlement. I've read your posts and you're a very intelligent, well mannered guy.

The article I linked to mentions specific experts in the relevant fields:
Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla.
Susan Milbrath, a Maya archaeoastronomer and a curator at the Florida Museum of Natural History.
University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie


Are the scientists you're referencing about tectonic destruction in the documentary? I'll watch it and find them if necessary.

Well, there was actual video documentaries with several scientists in the video I linked you to previously. Was that not good enough?

The reason I'm not providing you with numerous websites and whatnot is because what I'm saying is all over the internet, tv (as I've shown you), books, magazine articles. It just takes you to go look for them.