Bruce Lee

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I am not dick measuring. You are just getting that feeling. I will leave you as to think about why. I, myself, am interested in all styles of fighting, and promoting them all, saying all dicks have merit, large and small. LOL.

Anyway, so, basically what you are saying is for Bruce to be effective he has to have this, and that, and everything just right, limitations and restrictions, they will hinder him, something in the enviroment aint right and it 'wasn't his fault' he lost... Some adaptable Warrior that sounds to be...

Have you even read and understood anything Bruce Lee said? Have you read and understood anything I've said?

Let me make it clear. Bruce Lee investigated MANY styles and took what worked FOR HIM. He clearly points out that what works for him might not be the same as what works for you or for me. That is probably the most fundamental point of his Jeet Kune Do philosophy. Bruce was all about being adaptable.

The problem I have with you is you trying to discredit Bruce as a martial artist simply because he never got into the ring. That is where you are "dick measuring". But as I said before, his legacy as a martial artist was his philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and the example he set when it came to training and maintaining a fit body and alert mind IN GENERAL. That he never went into the ring is unimportant to his reputation but obviously the ONLY thing you think that you can discredit him on. But to the rest of us you just look like an idiot. (i.e. "dick measuring")

[Alastor]

Tenchu, Thai people are often smaller, so they don't need to weigh that much. For my length and age, I should weigh at least 65 kilos, but I weigh much less than that. And by 65 kilos I mean normal weigh for someone who doesn't train. So we're talking 70 kilos here.

Not saying that's an excuse, but from experience, trainin hasn't helped me build muscles or gain weight (and I was the most prominent student during training).

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Alastor

Tenchu, Thai people are often smaller, so they don't need to weigh that much. For my length and age, I should weigh at least 65 kilos, but I weigh much less than that. And by 65 kilos I mean normal weigh for someone who doesn't train. So we're talking 70 kilos here.

Not saying that's an excuse, but from experience, trainin hasn't helped me build muscles or gain weight (and I was the most prominent student during training).

Training won't build any extra muscle on anyone since that is not the way muscle is formed. It will make you stronger and define what you already have.

[Alastor]

The point of training is to make the muscle cells grow bigger, right? And with their growth comes an increase in weigh. Couple that with the need food after training, I think little over a year worth of training surely should have done somnething. But, alas... none xD I still weigh 55 kilos (which I did when I was 16 years old).

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Alastor

The point of training is to make the muscle cells grow bigger, right? And with their growth comes an increase in weigh. Couple that with the need food after training, I think little over a year worth of training surely should have done somnething. But, alas... none xD I still weigh 55 kilos (which I did when I was 16 years old).

No, the point of training in this case is to fight.
It makes you faster and stronger and makes your muscles as efficient as possible.
Training to make your muscles larger is an entirely different strategy.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes, but the muscles on my back and legs in particular have increased slightly in size, and gotten so defined it is not funny. It will build some muscle, but yes, it is not concerntrated muscle building same like weights are.

Alastor, being tall and light is the ultimate advantage in Muay Thai ring. You would fight someone the same weight but most likely half the height, this means you have strike range, and would punch his head off when he is only at kicking range, and when you kick him he cant hit at all!

But on the street weight helps a bit, yes.

They'll increase a bit of course and be more cut up but if you are the type of person who finds it difficult to put on muscle then you require the type of training i'm talking about, to get bigger in general.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Okay, and what kind of training are you talking about, then?

Its more a change of lifestyle to put on Muscle Mass. You need to fix your diet and also train the right way when you go to the gym.
Pyramid training on different muscle sets and using intervals rather than reps is also a part of this training. You also need to concentrate on just weights and nothing else that can take away from the energy you will use while training. So an hour run before weight lifting will mean you eventually do less of a workout than your muscles need to actually get bigger.
It is the last push of reps which will get your muscles to increase in size. The weight on the bar obviously needs to be increased at a regular rate so your muscles will continue to think they need increasing to keep up with the exercise that is being given them.
Too many reps of the same weight will just define your muscles, i.e. whats already there.

[Alastor]

I know swimming is good. You swim, Tenchu. Swimming is great I just need the money to buy me a term pass so I can swim at regular hours.

By training I meant any kind of training. Being around 177cm-178cm and weighing 55, that's too little, even on that BMI scale. And veeery little of that is muscle. So, when I sort of need a few kilos more fat (5 kilos I think) and then just build a bit more muscle. Thing is, I can't seem to do neither XD

It's hard to find a good Muay Thai club in Sweden. Most practitioners are street thugs who just wants to learn how to go beat up people randomly at night. I don't want to be associated with one of them.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You are on the right track, Ivon. There are many ways of doing it. And tricking the muscles into thinking they need more power is the key in every successful way. The way I look at it is with each lift your muscles have to believe they are not strong enough. From saying this, it is obvious my bench press is loaded with weights and I can only lift it 3 or 4 times in a set, and by the end of the workout just once. But I dont agree running is bad. If it weakens and wears the muscles before your workout then your muscles will have to try even harder to do the same workout, meaning they want to build up better! You understand? If you do copious amounts of reps, say 30, of a light weight then it dont do much. The real problem with it is your muscles cheat, and try to use as little effort as possible to do the job, and so your endurance might increase, and you get fitter, but not stronger, not much. But if you lift the max it has to use everything you got, so your muscles learn there is no easy way out, and they grow.

Diet, everyones diet is different. A weightlifters diet should include pizza, I know that... Mine does!

Lol dude, I used to train with professional powerlifters so they gave me quite a few great tips on things.
I personally am not bothered about building muscle. I've got enough defined already. I used to be able to do 110KG Bench Press but then my shoulder knuckle f**ked up and it became painful for me even to move it for a while. That's around the time I started my Shaolin/Mantis training.
Anyway, this stuff is more for people like Alastor who have a problem looking too skinny. If you want to build, do the type of training i've outlined earlier. Diet is also important for people like you since you burn stuff up so fast.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Being adaptable means being able to overcome challenges, this is what fighting is, the conquering of an obstacle. If this obstacle is me having pillows on my hands, then so be it, I will knock the guy out all the same.

This is not what I said, if you will re read you will understand I said my problem was that he said a real master does not fight in tournaments. And then I went on to say there are many valid occupations for a Warrior, they are actor (martial arts movies), Army (infantry units only), tournament fighter (any style), teacher (best for older people), or criminal is another, if you are more like a Ninja... I critisize that Bruce failed to see this. Fighters need to make money too, and he is mocking it? Speaking in experience, when people mock either sparring or tournaments, then they usually lack the skills to do it. Where as, people who are not afraid of it, they will usually be capable of it, whether they do it or not. To me it seems Bruce wanted to be number 1, and he would not want to be beaten in a ring. Whether he knew it or not, most people dont, really. I dont care if he ever got into a ring, that is his choice. He had no need to, he had money from acting. But the fact he mocked it, this shows insecurity. He had no reason to, there is nothing bad about it.

I think Ivon and Alastor think I am pretty smart, in all, even if they sometimes disagree... I am not making him out to look like an idiot. I have no need to discredit anything else he does. I got no problem with it. But, he said some pretty dumb things about martial arts in general. He was a good actor, but when all is said, I dont put him above Jackie Chan or Jet Li in anything at all. He is not 'legend'.

Geez! You have TOTALLY misunderstood what he said. He said those things but he wasn't having a go at anyone in particular nor was he mocking ring fighters. He was explicitly saying that in the context of being able to look BEYOND the ring. AS I SAID BEFORE... One of Bruce's favourite fighters was Muhammed Ali. He thought he had the best form he'd ever seen at the time..