Obama vs. McCain

[Paul11]

many politicians have come that far even though they were "bad." Has nothing to do with it. PLenty aweful politicians have run for president who, in hind site, were not very good. Our political system favors mediocrity.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but part of Obama's strategy is to pull the young vote. He's relying on the fact that young people are passionate, want change and have not had the misfortune of witnessing many presidential elections. ask older folk and they might give you a more wry view of the process and remember poor candidates of times past. I write to you with all due respect.

[koaku]

But its the same strategy EVERYWHERE lol!! In France during our last Election (June 07) we broke historic records of participation among youth population!

And now just check what happened lol (Ask Noodle he will tell ya..lol)

Its nothing lol and i respect you opinion but you know its weird because the result of this election will change not only your everyday life (as an American) but the life of billion people around the world..

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Paul11

Not really. Democrats and Republicans, according to several major polls, do not want amnesty. The vast majority of voters want the problem taken care of. People in America generally have no problem with immigration, but feel illegal immigration is taking it's cultural and economic toll.

It harmed him in voters eyes and and he afterward apologized and said he now understands what voters want. This did not help him.

I think it helped him in a way that showed his personality to be outside the Republican box. This way even Democrats may vote for him, especially if they were for the Clinton camp, no matter what their view on illegal immigration might be. Subconcious bias and prejudice plays a big part when picking and choosing anything.
A presidents personality goes a long way to gain a lay persons vote. Would it be harsh of me to call the majority of states in America, prejudiced? That's one of the reasons a non-white/non-male president still hasn't been successful when even third world countries have gotten over this problem well before America.
You also need a president who can think outside of the box, not make the same mistakes and be pressured by the same problems as previous presidents. I just think Obama has less agendas and is in comparison, more straight talking than McCain potentially is.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

Bwa hah hah.
You believe a politician just because he used the word denounce?

I love you guys. If I put up an argument you always say "You actually believe him?"

Originally Posted by Paul11

Everyone gets health care in the US. Even if they don't have health insurance. Have you seen the signs in hospitals. I have seen many people die and seen many many people sent to the hospital in the ambulance. The system is amazing. When in Japan the doctors couldn't even diagnose a case of tonsiltius.

Yes, we have the best doctors in the world, I have no doubt about it.

A friend of mine got food poisoning a little while back. He was from a different state, so we learned the hard way that his health insurance didn't cover any care out of the state. The ambulance ride (15 minutes) was 800 dollars. The cost for care (about 90 minutes...they wouldn't let him spend the night, even though he was still nauseous) was 2500 dollars.

3300 dollars for an ailment as common as food poisoning. I ask Noodle or Ivon or Koaku or anyone else from a country outside the US if they would expect to pay that much.

Imagine then getting cancer. Imagine having an insurance company that decides your cancer is too expensive to cure. Your liver transplant is too expensive. Your brain surgery is too expensive. I don't think that happens in other countries.

Should life-threatening illnesses put you in bankruptcy? Even if insurance covers 90% of expenses, bills of 200,000 or 500,000 or even a million dollars are not uncommon for serious illness. Again, I ask our non-American friends if they would be expected to sell their home to pay their medical bills.

Originally Posted by Paul11

Yes, I do judge people by thier past crimes and the company they keep. It says a lot about an individual.

McCain too? Do I need to tell you about the company he keeps? Besides all the lobbyists forced to quit his campaign (though dozens still are working for him) and, well, President Bush, there are a lot of people closely tied to McCain that may make you want to reconsider. It depends on what issues are close to you...

Originally Posted by Paul11

McCain has shown many times a strong ability to reach across party lines. Obama has never ever done anyhting out of step with the extreme liberal arm of the Democrat party. He has the done nothing in Washington D.C. and is considered the most liberal momber of congress.

Obama is a consistant Democrat, where McCain is all over the map. The most extreme liberal? That's in the eye if the beholder...many reserve that title for John Kerry. I have never heard anyone call Obama the most extreme liberal before today.

Originally Posted by Paul11

Barak will never solve the energy crisis because he is against drilling, against nuclear energy, against everything except making everything prohiitively expensive, which crushes the working class. Or over regulating things, which liberals tend to do (just look at thier primary rules) which tends to destroy economies.

Look at McCain's voting record on drilling in Alaska. He's voted against it, too. Nuclear is fine, just where do you put the waste? What do you propose? The "gas-tax vacation" for the summer? That's McCain's idea. Give Americans 18 cents back every gallon. Of course, the price of gas has gone up 60 cents a gallon since he proposed it...

Originally Posted by Paul11

I understand your hope for change, but it's not in a smooth-talking do nothing Obama who's personal friends are criminals and terrorists (yep, home grown leftie convicted ones about whom he said, "I didn't know he did that." Bull pucky.)

If you really want to rate the presidential nominees by their friends then McCain scares me MUCH more than Obama. Who is friends with George Bush? Who is friends with Dick Cheney? Who has proposed keeping our troops in Iraq for the next 100 years? I'll take a shady businessman and a war protestor who commited crimes when Obama was at the ripe old age of 8. McCain's campaign is full of lobbyists. Yes the very people he said he would drive out of Washington. Washington, where he has worked for the past 20 years. NOW he will make changes.

Originally Posted by Paul11

P.s. I mention California because it was the biggest housing bubble and the center of the housing crisis. People werern't really duped. All these people were going for exotic loans as a way to buy a house they really couldn't afford. Soem didn't read the fine print or understand the deal? Maybe, that's why you don't sign a contract for something so expensive if you don't understand what you're doing.

Maybe so. But it happened to millions of Americans. So if we want to say they were all stupid, fine, but that doesn't deny the fact that a crisis is upon us. One that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

I can explain. For example, recently, McCain co-authored an immigration bill with arch-liberal Senator Ted Kennedy in which illegal immigrants already in the states would effectively be given amnesty. This was in direct opposition to what most Republicans (McCain's party) and conservative supporters wanted. It was ultimatley shot down. But it was a huge hand across the party divide.
In contrast, you can research Obama's voting record since he was a local politician in Chicago (huge mob town) through his career in Washingto D.C. His votes never waver from left wing of Democrat party. He also is reletively inexperienced and has not really done anything. He's a real good talker.

I don't agree with some of McCains policies, but if you look back as far as you can you will notice every election is about the lesser of two evils. I think Obama will be hugely damaging to our republic. McCain less so.

That wasn't McCain's "putting a hand across" as much as McCain being McCain and going against his party. It's for these very reasons Republicans in his home state of Arizona were very much against his nomination. It always worries me when the home state leaders...the guys that actually know him...don't want him as President.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

many politicians have come that far even though they were "bad." Has nothing to do with it. PLenty aweful politicians have run for president who, in hind site, were not very good. Our political system favors mediocrity.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but part of Obama's strategy is to pull the young vote. He's relying on the fact that young people are passionate, want change and have not had the misfortune of witnessing many presidential elections. ask older folk and they might give you a more wry view of the process and remember poor candidates of times past. I write to you with all due respect.

You make it sound like going for young new voters is a subversive strategy.

McCain is trying to do the same, but isn't having the same sucess. Why is that?

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by MMM

Yes, we have the best doctors in the world, I have no doubt about it.

A friend of mine got food poisoning a little while back. He was from a different state, so we learned the hard way that his health insurance didn't cover any care out of the state. The ambulance ride (15 minutes) was 800 dollars. The cost for care (about 90 minutes...they wouldn't let him spend the night, even though he was still nauseous) was 2500 dollars.

3300 dollars for an ailment as common as food poisoning. I ask Noodle or Ivon or Koaku or anyone else from a country outside the US if they would expect to pay that much.

Nope, I wouldn't expect to pay that much in England. Thank God for the NHS!

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Nope, I wouldn't expect to pay that much in England. Thank God for the NHS!

I know of some people who don't even go for basic check ups due to lack of health care insurance. I'm one of them. I'm a diabetic, too. The doctor visits are expensive, ironically, my medication is relatively cheap. I just hope I never get into an accident or anything that requires an actual hospital visit because I wouldn't be able to afford to pay it. So...having a child is 100% out for me. ^^;

[Tyrien]

I've come to the conclusion that Obama needs to win.

This is because he is in full support of net neutrality.

Mcain is against this and says "If you own the pipes you should be able to charge what you want for it".

If Mcain gets into power the internet as we know it in the western world will die.

[Paul11]

MMM - You are distorting facts again. McCain made a comment about 100 years and Iraq. He did not say we would be fighting there for 100 years. You know, we just can't leave now. Then the cleansing and mass murder would start on a level unprecedented. People are turning out extremists and siding with the U.S. now because they know we're winning and have proved we won't just abandoned them. I know this because I've talked to soldiers and leaders in the armed forces. Also, because the Democrat leaning press doesn't want you to know this.

And you showed your stripes as a true shrill liberal when you point out that McCain is freinds of Bush and cheney. He's also pals with Hill Clinton. I love it when you people blame Bush for everthing. Bush this and Bush that. Get off it. I don't want the guy in there any longer either, but he's done some good things as well. I'm privy to security briefs from certain agencies, and let me tell you - tons of attacks within the States have been averted from terrorists within. This is something you won't hear from the lopsided press.

An Ivan - The medical is expensive because of rules prohibiting competition between health care providers and the meddling of trial lawyers suing institution for millions. that doesn't mean we should just socialize the system and let the govmn't run it. That would generat more waste. In England health care is not as expensive, but it's also not as readily available. we hear nothing but horror stories of Brits made to wait until they die because resources are so thin. brittish doctors deplore their own system and report it's on the brink of collapse. De-regulate the sytem and allow for competition always lowers prices. Over-regulating only stifles a system.