China: New Superpower?

[kireikoori]

Noodle, did you use the internet much while in China?
What can you tell me about internet censorship in China?

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

If you read my post again you can see that I never said the word "expert". Try again. However, the fact that you are willing to pass judgment and tell people "how it really is" after being in China for less than a month doesn't give you much credibility, infact it gives you none.

I also did not criticize the chinese people as a whole. That's the whole point (well part of it atleast), it's the people who get oppressed/jailed for nothing/executed/censored who we sympathize with! If you can't see that there is something wrong with their government, then I guess you're beyond help.

Unfortenately, the Olympics will provide the world with more people like you, who will go there and "get impressed by how beautiful everything is, and oh so kind they are! The media must have lied to us about the atrocities."

I am not saying you can't argue for China or whatever (if you do, you will meet resistance). But don't proclaim that you know how the situation in China infact is, because you were there with friends a few weeks.

Lastly, the way you're hiding behind personal attacks and stupid insults just prove to us what kind of person you are. It doesn't win you points.

I think a balance is required here.Ok China is not perfect and totally beautiful but it is not a terrible place full of sadness and torture like most of the west says.It is only a normal country that haves a particular culture and a system that actually works.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

I think a balance is required here.Ok China is not perfect and totally beautiful but it is not a terrible place full of sadness and torture like most of the west says.It is only a normal country that haves a particular culture and a system that actually works.

If you by "particular culture and a system that actually works." for instance mean squashing freedom of speech, then sure.

The fact that a country "works" doesn't always mean it's so good over there. And whether it really "works" is a whole other discussion.

I'd think it would be more fair to say that the Chinese people in general is a people like every other: Most people are very nice and good (which is why people shouldn't hate the "Chinese people"), some are assholes but don't cause too much trouble, and some are pure idiots who destroy life in all kinds of ways. Unfortenately the latter part have too much influence over there.

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

If you by "particular culture and a system that actually works." for instance mean squashing freedom of speech, then sure.

The fact that a country "works" doesn't always mean it's so good over there. And whether it really "works" is a whole other discussion.

I'd think it would be more fair to say that the Chinese people in general is a people like every other: Most people are very nice and good (which is why people shouldn't hate the "Chinese people"), some are assholes but don't cause too much trouble, and some are pure idiots who destroy life in all kinds of ways. Unfortenately the latter part have too much influence over there.

"Most people are very nice and good"-Are you REALLY talking about Earth???.0_0.

Anyway.The system works because it is focused at the community-The whole.And systems like Democracy are focused at the individuals.

I think that the country development is positive for all the people from the country.So a system that focus at community will be positive to everyone.But a system focused at individual supposedly rights like "Freedom Of Speech" end up negative to everyone.

Freedom is fantastic.My country haves freedom.But what can you do with freedom if you don't have food or education?Nothing.

And also most of people think the west haves things that China don't.Like freedom.But try to go against the government at any "Democratic" country and you'll be beated by the police to shut up.-Freedom sweet and unexistent freedom.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

"Most people are very nice and good"-Are you REALLY talking about Earth???.0_0.

Of course the majority is "good people" in the sense that they are not criminals (dicks there are plenty of though). "Very nice" was poor wording I admit.

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

"I think that the country development is positive for all the people from the country.

Except the ones that have to give their lives for nothing, the ones jailed for disagreeing....you mean? (the list could go on)

Talk about someones arguments being flawed. You start by saing freedom is fantastic, only to go on about how it's not really that great.

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

And also most of people think the west haves things that China don't.Like freedom.But try to go against the government at any "Democratic" country and you'll be beated by the police to shut up.-Freedom sweet and unexistent freedom.

Dude, when you talk about freedom as a bad thing I really think you're only thinking about the US, where "freedom" is shoved down everyones throat whenever someone is trying to justify something. (to the point I guess many US people are sick of the word "freedom")

You absolutely will not get beat up by police just by criticizing the government in a democratic countries. Ofcourse police brutality exists, but not by orders from the state.

If you think I lie, check the US media criticizing Bush. Can they? Yes. Will they get jailed for it? No.

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Of course the majority is "good people" in the sense that they are not criminals (dicks there are plenty of though). "Very nice" was poor wording I admit.


Except the ones that have to give their lives for nothing, the ones jailed for disagreeing....you mean? (the list could go on)

Talk about someones arguments being flawed. You start by saing freedom is fantastic, only to go on about how it's not really that great.



Dude, when you talk about freedom as a bad thing I really think you're only thinking about the US, where "freedom" is shoved down everyones throat whenever someone is trying to justify something. (to the point I guess many US people are sick of the word "freedom")

You absolutely will not get beat up by police just by criticizing the government in a democratic countries. Ofcourse police brutality exists, but not by orders from the state.

If you think I lie, check the US media criticizing Bush. Can they? Yes. Will they get jailed for it? No.

I saw people be beated by police at protests at:

Chile
Argentina
Brazil
Mexico
Germany

Etc etc.

The USA government don't care about the critics because it is not affecting them.But if it begins to affect them the critics will be shutted up immediately.

And if you haven't noticed I was sarcastic when I said that "Freedom is fantastic".^^.

Because freedom is nothing but a uthopy.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

I saw people be beated by police at protests at:

Chile
Argentina
Brazil
Mexico
Germany

Etc etc.

The USA government don't care about the critics because it is not affecting them.But if it begins to affect them the critics will be shutted up immediately.

And if you haven't noticed I was sarcastic when I said that "Freedom is fantastic".^^.

Because freedom is nothing but a uthopy.

Yes, and I said police brutality exists in every country that has police. But there's a BIG difference in people getting beat in a demonstration that spirals out of control for the police (where they often can make the wrong decisions) and jailing/beating people for the sole reason they spoke their mind.

Anyways. It seems you are very into left-wing politics and socialism/communism (which is fine with me even if I won't agree with you). But if you believe a one-party state which controls your every move and restricts you from even saying stuff they don't want you to say is the way to go, then well, why don't try and move to such a state?

Now, I need to go work some before the day is over

[noodle]

Originally Posted by kireikoori

Noodle, did you use the internet much while in China?
What can you tell me about internet censorship in China?

Yes, I did use the internet in both Internet Cafes and Friends homes. There was no censorship that I could see. But then again, I was looking at foreign sites (I cannot read or speak any Chinese Dialect).

Originally Posted by Henbaka

If you read my post again you can see that I never said the word "expert". Try again. However, the fact that you are willing to pass judgment and tell people "how it really is" after being in China for less than a month doesn't give you much credibility, infact it gives you none.

I also did not criticize the chinese people as a whole. That's the whole point (well part of it atleast), it's the people who get oppressed/jailed for nothing/executed/censored who we sympathize with! If you can't see that there is something wrong with their government, then I guess you're beyond help.

Unfortenately, the Olympics will provide the world with more people like you, who will go there and "get impressed by how beautiful everything is, and oh so kind they are! The media must have lied to us about the atrocities."

I am not saying you can't argue for China or whatever (if you do, you will meet resistance). But don't proclaim that you know how the situation in China infact is, because you were there with friends a few weeks.

Lastly, the way you're hiding behind personal attacks and stupid insults just prove to us what kind of person you are. It doesn't win you points.

Dude, have you even read anything I've written in this thread? I haven't claimed that China was some kind of heavan. The closest I came to that was saying that it was a beautiful country and people. I replied to Tenchu when he said noone had been to china, and I added that this is another reason WHY I defended china. Whether I was there for a couple of weeks or a couple of years is irrelavent, because the fact is, I've been there for longer than MOST OF YOU. And for you guys to debate as if YOU know what it's like is more ridiculous than me arguing as IF i know what it's like. Hint, I've been there for a couple of weeks more than you, so that's a lot more information than you can get from bias news. Oh and, don't bother starting this whole I'm saying the west lies. Go read what was written in previous pages.

I'm glad there will be more people like me. People need to have an open mind instead of watching the news and assuming that the whole country is f-ed up (this is not personally you, but a lot of people think China is some f-ed up country. For proof of this, just watch the protests against the olympics. You will see foreign people that have never been to china trying to convince chinese people that their government is f-ed up and is trying to destroy them...). I will never proclaim that China is perfect. Far from it, but I will always fight against people that have this ridiculous negative image of it simply from some crappy documentary or news report they've seen. But then again, I'm not surprised... Jealousy seems to run in the blood of the westerners...

EDIT;

Another thing... Do you really thing the Chinese people are trained dogs or something? Do you really believe that if people spoke their mind, they'd be jailed? hahahahahaaaa. That's as far from the truth as it can be. People speak out against their government like any other country. I like how you've applied an isolated incident to a whole population. It's funny, I could say the same thing about Europe as well. Need I remind you that an english person got jailed for three years for doubting how many Jew's were killed in WW2? Seriously, just GO to china, or meet chinese people. They speak out as much as anyone else.

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Yes, and I said police brutality exists in every country that has police. But there's a BIG difference in people getting beat in a demonstration that spirals out of control for the police (where they often can make the wrong decisions) and jailing/beating people for the sole reason they spoke their mind.

Anyways. It seems you are very into left-wing politics and socialism/communism (which is fine with me even if I won't agree with you). But if you believe a one-party state which controls your every move and restricts you from even saying stuff they don't want you to say is the way to go, then well, why don't try and move to such a state?

Now, I need to go work some before the day is over

If the leaders are good leaders it works.

Have fun at work dude.Cya.^^.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

It wasn't a discriminatory comment. If so, how? Is it untrue? If so, how? The fact of the matter is that I was simply likening a Muslim pointing to a beautiful sunset or a streak of good luck as evidence of God's existence to the fact that the media can get it wrong being evidence of it promoting some grand political agenda.

Stop being so sensitive.... I'm not "playing" anything. And whether you're offended or not doesn't really bother me... I just call it how I see it.

lol, dude... First you were pointing out the flaws of muslims, and now it's not a discriminatory comment? Wow... I give up... You indeed are a twat.